General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 10

[The Rose*]

Geez. This thread has exploded from this morning. I am glad I stepped away from this thread for a few hours. The mods may have kicked me off the board because of my issues with Spike. It is no secret I do not care much for Spike. Anyway, BBOVENGUY summed up all of my thoughts perfectly.
I just want Willow and Tara alive, together and happy. I do not really care how we get there.

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Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.

Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!

[Epicurus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ryath:
I think an event equivilent to Tara's death is sort of needed for Willow to realize that she has to love herself as much as she loves Tara (well maybe not QUITE as much as Tara.)

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I think getting back with Tara, working out their problems and seeing Tara's love for her as the only things needing to occur in order to help Willow to feel love for herself.quote:

[Ryath]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wiccagrrl:
Ryath, I think you're gonna have a hard time convincing people here that Tara's death should, could, or will be permanent, or that that might, in any way, be a good thing

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See, I'm not, and I think that's where you're getting me wrong. All i've seen on this board is that Tara IS going to die. So, i'm trying to find any CONCEIVEABLE reason why they would do it. In fact, if you read my last post, i'm trying to think up ways that the death would NOT be permanent.

And, Xita - I never EVER said her death was neccessary. That IS twisted logic. I don't think he death is neccessary. But, if all the signs are pointing to a Tara death...why not try to figure out why in hell they would do it?

If they're going to kill her, (and hopefully it will not be permanent) there has to be a reason, no matter how unfair it is...and i'm trying to understand WHAT that reason could possibly be. It would have to be a reason that brings Willow and Tara closer to a truth that they might not have seen before. It can't be for reason at all, or just to have Willow go bad, in my mind.

So, I was putting out a theory. Like many others have.

[This message has been edited by Ryath (edited March 17, 2002).]quote:

[Willowhand]

quote:

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Originally posted by mariacomet:

I say, even if Willow lives, to murder Tara is to murder Willow.

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I totally agree with you on that. They complete one another.

[This message has been edited by Willowhand (edited March 17, 2002).]quote:

[sam7777]

Xita wrote:

quote:

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Willow can face her issues, with Tara around, sorry the death is not necessary.

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Absolutely agree here. In fact, leaving Tara dead leaves unresolved one of the major issues of Willow's growing up: Willow's immaturity in her own relationship with Tara. Tara called her on this in "Tabula Rasa". If Tara is gone, Willow will be unable to show if she could have a real realationship since from what I see from this spoiler:

quote:

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They kiss passionately, they interlock fingers, holding on as tight as they can, not letting go they keep kissing, it is intense, it is passionate, and it is above all else, love, truly and forever.

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Tara is it for Willow in the love dept. What can they do with Willow after that? Have her moping around 7th season? Raise you hands if you want to see that. I don't.

Dammit after all the angst we've been subjected to without relief this season, I'd like to see a happen ending.

quote:quote:

[theatremouse]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
It would seem to me that DSM is someone who has remarkably reliable access to spoilers, but only once in a while. If you'll recall, before the Episode 18 spoilers the last thing that DSM gave us was for "Smashed."

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this is true. i suppose i'm just getting tense. plus he did give us that stuff from entropy about 2 months ago... so i guess it feels like he's due..... my brain itches lately, because of btvs. know what i mean?

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It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.quote:

[Wiccagrrl]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ryath:

See, I'm not, and I think that's where you're getting me wrong. All i've seen on this board is that Tara IS going to die. So, i'm trying to find any CONCEIVEABLE reason why they would do it. In fact, if you read my last post, i'm trying to think up ways that the death would NOT be permanent.

And, Xita - I never EVER said her death was neccessary. That IS twisted logic. I don't think he death is neccessary. But, if all the signs are pointing to a Tara death...why not try to figure out why in hell they would do it?

If they're going to kill her, (and hopefully it will not be permanent) there has to be a reason, no matter how unfair it is...and i'm trying to understand WHAT that reason could possibly be. It would have to be a reason that brings Willow and Tara closer to a truth that they might not have seen before. It can't be for reason at all, or just to have Willow go bad, in my mind.

So, I was putting out a theory. Like many others have.

[This message has been edited by Ryath (edited March 17, 2002).]

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Ah, ok. I misunderstood, then, cause I was thinking your point was that Tara would have to *stay* dead (in that Willow remembering things, even if they put them right at the end, wouldn't do it)

Still don't know that I agree, but frankly I've been really struggling with trying to find a point of all this too, so I understand what you're saying. If it ends well, if Tara's alive and W/T are together when all is said and done, well, I might be able to find a silver lining to it all. If not, if Tara's still dead by the end of the finale, I'm not sticking around to see what they can throw at us next year.

[This message has been edited by Wiccagrrl (edited March 17, 2002).]quote:

[Ryath]

Wiccagirl-
I'm glad I was a bit more clear that time

Yeah, I'm not sure i think my scenario is very plausible either.

I'm trying to find some meaning here too. Truthfully, it's eating away at me. I can't think of any good reason to kill Tara, either permanently or not. None. I'm grasping at straws. *sigh*

[Epicurus]

Is anyone else just sitting back waiting to dive deep into the next theory that might be posted? Waiting for the next kitten lightblub to turn on?

*looks around at the bewildered faces*
ok so it's just me then...

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The Paradox of Fiction
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/f/fict-par.htm

[Ryath]

quote:

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Originally posted by Epicurus:
Is anyone else just sitting back waiting to dive deep into the next theory that might be posted? Waiting for the next kitten lightblub to turn on?

*looks around at the bewildered faces*
ok so it's just me then...

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Funny, you should say, Epicurus, because I was just thinking...*is drowned out by the boos and hisses of kittens all over the world*

quote:

[Scout]

quote:

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Originally posted by Epicurus:
...The problem I have with the idea that it's the very last thing Tara would ever want Willow to do, is that Tara will be dead. A lot of good that sentiment will do for a grieving Willow.

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The value of that sentiment is that it could help Willow find a reason to go on. Not self-destructing is one way to ensure that their love and everything they stood for doesn’t die with Tara.

But it appears that Joss has chosen to go another way with this story. We’ll just have to wait and see if it’s a storyline that will be worth watching.

quote:

[Epicurus]

Ryath, there is no boos and hisses. It's all in your imagination. Some might disagree but if you never put it out there you never know what kind of spark you might create.

Scout, I do indeed see value in your statement.
I was trying to see it from Willow’s perspective hence the “What good does it do”.

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The Paradox of Fiction
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/f/fict-par.htm

[Ryath]

Epicurus -

Aww, I know, and thanks for that I don't even mind the challenges...it helps me make myself more clear, and occasionally makes me reconsider my own ideas. That's why I like this place!

Hey..Is this a doll's eye post for me?

[daydreamer]

Ryath, I also get what you're trying to do. That is why we really need to see how everything plays out in the end. The death of Tara should be more meaningful than what it appears to be. But I also agree with what Xita said that the death is unnecessary if only to see how willow works out her issues without Tara. Because she already had done so. I only see it now after reading Xita's post.

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Epicurus: I think getting back with Tara, working out their problems and seeing Tara's love for her as the only things needing to occur in order to help Willow to feel love for herself.[QUOTE]

And I totally agree with this. Very well said, Epicurus.

[This message has been edited by daydreamer (edited March 17, 2002).]

[Web Warlock]

Hey.

Is there any possible way that the scripts that have been seen are fake?

Look, maybe I am in strong denial here, but I want to back my bus all the to the terminal.

No offense to what the spoiler people and Bob have told us. But this is getting stupid.

I have thought about it every which way I can think of. There simply is no good reason for Tara to have to die. None.

I am begining to swing back to anger here and my target is ME. I would not put it past them to do fake script, but unfortunately, I also can't put it past them to kill Tara out right and for ever.

We have had no new news and I am stewing in my own juices here (ok not the prettiest picture I know).

Someone give me ONE good reason to trust Joss, Marty and the rest of ME that some good will come of this. Their stock is falling faster than ArthurAnderson's with me.

Any tid bit. A going away party for Amber (at least I would know something), Amber signing a contact, Hell, seeing her in a new car. Anything.

I am leaving denial and anger and going in to full blown panic. I can't keep this up for a month, but I can't not read this thread either.

Warlock

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.

[Kendahl897]

The one good reason or tidbit that you might want to hold onto is the fact that in the past three years, as far as the Willow and Tara relationship go, they haven't let us down yet. They've created a thing a beauty, and I just don't believe they would destroy it in such a cliche-ridden way, especially knowing Joss' opinions on the subject. I think things will be okay in the end.
BTW, did anyone besides me notice that Anya and Xander had the same picture of Willow/Tara on their refrigerator (in Hells Bells) that Buffy had on her mirror?

[Epicurus]

6 good reasons to put your trust in Joss:
New Moon Rising
Family
Tough Love
The Gift
Once More, With Feeling
Tabula Rasa

1 good reason not to trust Joss:
He's the devil

Weigh 'em.

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The Paradox of Fiction
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/f/fict-par.htm

[yaya]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
Hey.

Any tid bit. A going away party for Amber (at least I would know something), Amber signing a contact, Hell, seeing her in a new car. Anything.

I am leaving denial and anger and going in to full blown panic. I can't keep this up for a month, but I can't not read this thread either.

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yeah...if we could just find out if they had a party for her...then we would at least know...i wish we could find out the contract info for sure...even if its that emma doesnt have one...i mean i dont want to see her go but i will miss tara more

quote:

[Kamil]

Sorry if this is too terribly OT, but from the department of strange conkyidinks comes this bulletin -- on tonight's Queer as Folk, Michael goes into deep mourning when his beloved Captain Astro character is killed off, by an interplantery virus from which there is no known cure, and the reason seen by most of the on-line cartoon fen is that they finally decided to off Astro because he was seen as too gay and therefore had to die.

Was there a memo that I missed somewhere? Did Ron and Dan get with Joss over a bite to eat and decide to address this issue together? Or is this just another of life's bitter little ironies? I just wanna know what the ground rules are, ya know?

On a brighter note: Mel and Linz' wedding ep is in two weeks -- and unlike Xanya, I think these two will actually make it all the way to their 'I dos'. The B plot tonight was Lindsey finding out that her much beloved Granny had been a dyke too -- which was nicely vindicating, since Lindsey's prick mother had just refused to allow Linz to marry in Gran's dress.

Now that kind of irony, I *like.*

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Kamil
Willow: "I don't care if it is an orgy of death, there's still such a thing as a napkin."
"Superstar" BtVS

[Willow-n-Tara_1]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
Hey.

Any tid bit. A going away party for Amber (at least I would know something), Amber signing a contact, Hell, seeing her in a new car. Anything.

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I believe I have seen posted here and at the Essence of Amber site that she just bought a new house...Anyone else heard about that????

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From Out Aug01::: Joss on the Amber/Aly 'Kiss'
"Can we have one that's less like you're going to sleep together in about five minutes"quote:

[Jazzy_fyed]

Willow is *not* gonna go bad, and Tara is *not* going to die, and that's final. *There will be a *happy* ending and that's it. I will believe nothing until I see it with my own eyes,and that's pretty much the only thing keeping remotley sane until episode 20 airs.

[The Big I-T]

quote:

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Originally posted by Epicurus:
6 good reasons to put your trust in Joss:
New Moon Rising
Family
Tough Love
The Gift
Once More, With Feeling
Tabula Rasa

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You forgot The Body...

--jr

[This message has been edited by The Big I-T (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

[girlwiththebraids]

jumping back to the redemption topic earlier...because i had bunches of catching up on this thread to do...part of what made it more "okay" in relative terms for faith to kill the deputy mayor is what giles said..."the slayer is on the front lines of a nightly war" and accidents can and will happen...it is a part of the slayer that death is possibly going to happen, and possibly going to go awry...willow does not have that escape clause...she is NOT the slayer, and she does not have the right to take a life, no matter how evil and misogynistic...she will have to be redeemed...and like everyone in the buffyverse, some sort of backlash is inevitable...after all, isn't the whole black magic addiction the backlash of willow's actions in fighting glory and bringing back buffy?

braids

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"Is she your sister?"
"She's my everything..."

"Would that mean we have to snuggle?"

"There's nothing we can't face...except for bunnies."

"It's not a gay thing...I mean...she is...gay...but we don't gay..."

[Peapod]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
Hey.

Is there any possible way that the scripts that have been seen are fake?

Look, maybe I am in strong denial here, but I want to back my bus all the to the terminal.

No offense to what the spoiler people and Bob have told us. But this is getting stupid.

I have thought about it every which way I can think of. There simply is no good reason for Tara to have to die. None.

I am begining to swing back to anger here and my target is ME. I would not put it past them to do fake script, but unfortunately, I also can't put it past them to kill Tara out right and for ever.

We have had no new news and I am stewing in my own juices here (ok not the prettiest picture I know).

Someone give me ONE good reason to trust Joss, Marty and the rest of ME that some good will come of this. Their stock is falling faster than ArthurAnderson's with me.

Any tid bit. A going away party for Amber (at least I would know something), Amber signing a contact, Hell, seeing her in a new car. Anything.

I am leaving denial and anger and going in to full blown panic. I can't keep this up for a month, but I can't not read this thread either.

Warlock

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I totally agree with you. I have gone in to major panic mode and nothing is helping me.(maybe the sex scene?)There has been no news that Tara will not die, or that she will come back. Grrrr. I think we should try to make Joss rewrite the ending of season six as, everything working out for W/T. That would be fun.

*Peapod ploting evil things in the corner.*

[This message has been edited by Peapod (edited March 17, 2002).]quote:

[Corinthian]

quote:

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Originally posted by Epicurus:
6 good reasons to put your trust in Joss:
New Moon Rising
Family
Tough Love
The Gift
Once More, With Feeling
Tabula Rasa

1 good reason not to trust Joss:
He's the devil

Weigh 'em.

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And that one ultimately feeds the six, in a twisted way. Remember an early bronze beta post by Joss, back around seasons 4 & 5?

quote:

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Tara is evil. (then later) Tara is not evil. (and then, because like all comedians, he understands the power of 3) Tara is a weevil.

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Don't know how it ends. If the death is permanent (it'll crush my soul if it is). But I will have hope right until the credits of ep. 22. Which is why I'll be spending a lot of time between now and then in the daily thread riding the EGBOPML bus / cruise ship, sipping marguaritas.
quote:quote:

[tommo]

Tara is evil. She's evil for not getting naked more often.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[maudmac]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
Is there any possible way that the scripts that have been seen are fake?

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Y'know, I was thinking about this earlier today. And it seemed to me, as others have said, that you can't know anything with complete certainty until an ep airs.

Scripts, sides, prop lists, etc., can be fake/changed/misleading. What you see at a location shoot can be misinterpreted or eventually edited out. A PA may have incomplete info or may outright lie. Even the cast/crew/staff of a show may mislead or lie to you.

So what do we have, exactly? We have spoilage from reliable, trustworthy sources we know would never in a million years lie to us. And even though our main source (Michelle) obviously trusts her source(s), how can we be certain her source(s) hasn't/haven't been misled or lied to this time?

Would fake scripts be all that was necessary to explain the trainwrecky spoilage?

We don't have location shoot reports that confirm or deny anything in the spoilage, do we? I know what the PAs said, but if there are fake scripts out there, ME is responsible for it. ME put them out there on purpose and they would have known fans would be poking around any shoots they could find. So they simply tell the PAs what to say. (I don't know, it could happen, I guess.)

We don't have a cast/crew/staff member (that we know of, anyway) commenting on any spoilage one way or another.

Where exactly has the trainwreck stuff come from? There's been so much speculation mixed in with it, it's gotten kinda hard to tell what's "canon" spoilage and what's interpretation. Is it possible that 100% of this Tara dies, Willow goes BigBad stuff in eps 19 and 20 is the result of two well-placed fake scripts? What other confirmation of those events do we have?

I've been so caught up in keeping up with every development and everyone's speculation about its implications that I had forgotten how little we might really know.

I don't have a strong opinion either way. I just wanted to say, "Yeah, what Web Warlock said." (It just couldn't be that easy, though, could it?)quote:

[Wiccagrrl]

Look, I don't enjoy raining on anyone's parade, and I am feeling fairly confident that Tara will be alive and well when all is said and done, but...between AngelX's spoilers and Bob's location shoot... it's VERY unlikely we won't see Tara die and Willow go all vengeancy. Now, that's not the entire story, I'm sure... but Bob's location shoot especially seemed pretty conclusive. And I know ME doesn't like spoilers, but do you really think they'd waste lots-and-lots of money on a fake shoot on the off chance some fan might show up? Unlikely, to say the least.

[The Big I-T]

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
Tara is evil. She's evil for not getting naked more often.

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Oh I'm thinking it's not because she didn't want to...I've suspected all along that there's much more to that adorable crooked smile of hers than just pure sweetness.

--jr

quote:

[daydreamer]

quote:

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Originally posted by tommo:
Tara is evil. She's evil for not getting naked more often.

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I totally agree with you. Really evil. But she can redeem herself, right?

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To realize one's destiny is a person's only obligation. - Paolo Coelho's The Alchemistquote: