Joan of Arcadia

[tyche]

This is an excellent show, and I'm really enjoying it so far. When I first heard about the concept (average teenage girl talks to God, who appears to her in various forms), I thought that it might be preachy, sentimental and Seventh Heaven-ish, but fortunately it's anything but. This is due partly to smart writing, and Amber Tamblyn (who appeared as Dawn's friend in the BtVS season 5 ep 'All the Way'), who's excellent in the title role. Joe Mantegna and Mary Steenburgen are also great as Joan's parents, and John Ritter's son Jason plays Joan's brother, who's in a wheelchair following a car accident. It's refreshing to see a disabled character on TV who's allowed to be unsympathetic and even annoying sometimes, and it's even more refreshing that they didn't cop out by having God fixing her brother's disability as a way of recruiting Joan.

This is a show with great potential, and it's enjoyable even if you're not religious at all - as I posted in the 'ask any question' thread, I'm not religious and my husband is an atheist, and we both enjoy the show. So don't let the talking-to-God aspect put you off - it's definitely worth watching.

Edited by: tyche at: 10/8/03 11:36 am

[WebWarlock]

I have heard a lot of good about this as well.



When is it on?



Warlock

-----

Web Warlock

The Other Side,
home of Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks: Available October 31st, 2003!

"I don't want to believe. I want to know." - Carl Sagan

[BytrSuite]

I'm really enjoying this show. I've seen about 1 and a half eps. It's doing fairly well in the ratings, too, for whatever that's worth. They also seem to have interesting supporting characters, that's always a plus.



The last ep featured Warren Zevon's cover of "Back In The High Life Again" which was pretty cool.



They seem to be a little choppy with the switching from the daughter to the cop plots, but nothing too bad.



I agree, tyche, it's really not preachy at all, from what I've seen.



Amber Tamblyn was also on General Hospital for ages playing Emily Quartermain. She's got talent, for sure.



It's on Fridays at 7, central time.

________
"Oh, good! I was hoping to add theft, endangerment and insanity to my list of things I did today."
"Ah! You, too?"
(Stitch laughs delightedly)

[Gatito Grande]

I, too, am enjoying this show thus far. As I said on the TV thread, I'm also particularly intrigued by Joan's androgynous friend (I think she's a friend) Grace. Where (if anywhere) they go w/ this character (whose gender-queerness has already been noted by Joan's father) *could* be ground-breaking.



GG John Ritter's son, eh? I thought he had a vaguely familiar look about him; I can see it. Out



'kay, I'm back from my assigned detective work: it took some doing, but I finally found the name of the actor playing "Grace Polk": her name is Becky Wahlstrom. Here's where I found out: www.joanofarcadia.com/profiles/090.shtml and here's her IMDB listing: www.imdb.com/name/nm0906345/ As you can see, she hasn't done very much. But most important: Yay! She's a recurring character, and is listed as being in almost every episode thus far! Woo and Hoo!



One ep will involve the geeky younger brother's crush on Grace, for which he will be teased . . . I hope that the teasing will involve Grace's gender-ambiguity (if that doesn't sound weird of me to be rooting for any kind of teasing!)

[sprhrgrl]

(laugh) I've been waiting for someone to start this thread. . . I mentioned the show a while ago in the tv when it existed as such and nobody responded. So I'd been waiting for it, but I don't have cable.



I caught it randomly last week, though - I borrowed a cable from one of my housemates to do my watching commercials homework and it was on, so yay. I didn't like it soso much, but that's what I expected. I liked the message it gave - small things affecting larger things - and I loved Grace and Adam.



I wish I had seen the first episode. I was slow on the uptake figuring out why there were the fire scenes, until I realized that it was her father there. His scenes don't seem to gel so well with everyone else's.



And I love that the mom works at the school and the kids resent it. It's done so much better than certain other shows with that idea. . .



So yeah. Grace = hott. I hope I can manage to catch it again this week. If I can find a cable.

[Puff]

I love this show. I think that the acting is great, the scripts are clever and very funny in parts and the idea behind the main idea is interesting. God has me in stitches most of the time...and how many shows can you say that about? I am pleased that it is doing well in the ratings as it is on 8pm PCT and doesn't really have a very good lead in etc.



Thanks for starting this thread Tyche and I am glad to see that there are other JoA fans out there.

---

So, the day started and I knew my name and had my pants on. So far, so good. Yay.
Amber Benson

[Cicca]

Yeah, I'm still watching this one. Lots of interesting characters on it. Still hasn't quite grabbed me the way Karen Sisco has, but that may be due in part to my wanting to be grabbed by Karen Sisco.



I didn't clue in that the older brother is John Ritter's son. I knew he reminded me of someone. D'oh! I'm really enjoying his character.



Hooray for Grace being around. There may be some interesting stuff with her. I hope!

And yeah, God is pretty funny.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[Gatito Grande]

First off, I wanted to make an observation: teenage girl, w/ supernatural secret, trades down in social status at school, throwing over popular girl(s) for an outcast boy and girl. Hmmm, where have I seen this plot before?



Well, the "L" word has been used in connection to Grace: the cat's outta the bag. But does that mean . . . ? I'm wary: I'm thinking we're being set up for a reversal-of-obvious ("My sexuality is my own business"). Which . . . still could be kewl: as long as Grace stays as Butch as She Wants to Be!



Now, as to the show as a whole: it still seems kind of fractured . . . but I think it's *slowly* going to start coming together more. Right now, we've got the theme of "crisis of faith" running through the Girardi family (specifically, Mom/Helen, Dad/Joe and Joan . . . and maybe a little w/ Kevin). It's not a lot to tie the whole show together, but I expect that Joan (the "middle" child: duh!) will prove to be the glue (of course, that's what title characters tend to do as well ).



GG Line of the week: God asks Joan whether she read the book on chess S/He gave her, and Joan responds "Yeah, like you don't know. 'Cain, where is your brother?': that's so passive-aggressive!" Out



ETA: Oh, forgot to note: The "Hand Test" (which sprhrgrl *just mentioned* over on the "Homo&Biology" Thread on the K) made an appearance. Ye gods!

Edited by: Gatito Grande at: 10/10/03 7:20 pm

[SySnootles]

I caught my first episode tonight, and I have to say I'm impressed. Quite impressed. It's not too often there's a show with such brains on the air. I hope it lasts at least a couple of seasons. It's very well written and deals with some interesting issues and ideas. Although her dad is already annoying me. But everyone needs a foil.

Catie



"The purpose of life is not to be happy - but to matter, to be productive, to be useful, to have it make a difference that you lived at all." -- Leo Roston

[xita]

I downloaded the first 2 Joan of Arcadia and I have to say I enjoyed it very much.



I've read some comments here and in the recommendation thread about Grace's gender. I am kind of wondering why we would jump to the conclusion that Grace has gender issues. It's almost as if a masculine woman can't be a woman. Or that's the feeling I am getting. I haven't heard Grace herself say anything about having gender issues or even comments that could indicate that. The only people have have done that are adults and that's just a display of their ignorance as anyone with a brain can see she's a girl. I know how hurtful that can be to someone who is sure of their gender but refuses to comply to society's expectation of said gender. So until she says otherwise, I wouldn't assume that. I wouldn't assume anything about her sexuality either. Anyway it's still a good thing to see such a character on tv. Very refreshing.



Ok, now I am adding this after the last episode. She kind of made the point didn't she. Can't make that kind of assumption but you know I am glad the show took on that issue right away. It's a good sign.



Now on the show itself. I love it. It grabbed me right away. I love her brother, the geeky one and the relationship Joan has with him, and i like the adults. I am not so into the crime aspects of the show, the connections aren't always clear. But they don't dumb down the teens and they don't rely on stereotypes. So, I am happy. Good to be watching another good show.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Gatito Grande]

Er, um, xita I assume everyone has "gender issues." Some of us (Grace . . . me) have either chosen/been compelled (or both) to deal w/ 'em more consciously than others have. (i.e. "Gender Issues" = Good Thing)



. . . maybe that's just me. At any rate, that's all I'll say here (anymore belongs back on the K, on any of several threads!)



GG At least Grace is aware enough to know a *bad* aftershave from a good one! Out

[xita]

I don't have "gender" issues. Maybe you should define gender issues, because nothing grace has done shows me she has gender identification problems.

Quote:

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At least Grace is aware enough to know a *bad* aftershave from a good one!

---

I didn't get what you were trying to say there. Are you saying, smells are gender related? That a girl can't tell if an aftershave has a good smell or a bad smell?

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

Edited by: xita  at: 10/11/03 12:26 am

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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Er, um, xita I assume everyone has "gender issues." Some of us (Grace . . . me) have either chosen/been compelled (or both) to deal w/ 'em more consciously than others have. (i.e. "Gender Issues" = Good Thing)

---

I am curious what you mean by that as well. I take it to mean that you believe that everyone has issues about their own gender, whether consciously or unconsiously, but maybe you mean that everyone has issues about someone else's gender. Either way, I don't think you can assume what everyone else feels. I mean only a person themself can know how they feel right? None of my friends and family have ever questioned their gender, they have no issues about it.



From what I have read and heard about the character of Grace, I think it could go every way. Her behavior may not be what the people around her would consider typical female behavior, but that really does not 'prove' anything I think. There is a difference between behaviour and gender identity and sexual preference. She could be a straight girl, a gay girl, a bi girl, or maybe trans. She will be whatever she says she is.

That said, I really would like to see trans characters on TV, it would/could be a good thing, for the same reason we'd all like to see gay characters on TV, as long as they don't end up like cliches that is.

The last mosquito that bit me had to check into the Betty Ford Clinic.

--Patsy Stone

Edited by: DrG at: 10/11/03 1:42 am

[Gatito Grande]

Quote:

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That said, I really would like to see trans characters on TV, it would/could be a good thing, for the same reason we'd all like to see gay characters on TV

---

Exactly. We'd all like to see ourselves---whatever we are---reflected on TV. Straight, gender-normal people (esp. white ones) see characters like themselves *all* the time: the rest of us, not so much.



<GG opens mouth long enough to switch feet >



I responded to Grace because---however she IDs (if she ever does, explicitly)---I thought I could see something of myself in her. Do I mean that Grace is a gender-queer, quasi-FTM bi-dyke (like me)? Not at all. Only that something about her resonates in me, in a way that I almost never see in the media. But she could also resonate w/ lesbians, straight women, gay guys: heck, every kind of person. I'm just saying what *I* see.



Last word here, from me, on "gender issues" (if you wanna hear more, please email/EZ-inbox me, or take it to . . . the Trans thread, I guess): I assume . . . no, I believe that gender is a complex social construct for everyone, whether you're gender-queer, gender dysphoric, femme, butch, or just "average male or female." I also believe it is a Good Thing when one is aware of gender as a construct. That doesn't mean that one ever need question their gender identity. However, some of us, like myself, have found it unavoidable to confront the complexity of gender consciously, and question it. Society did that to me. That said, while I regret the shame and ostracism that society inflicted on me, I don't regret that it made me into a person who questions the gender duality we're all indoctrinated into (to wit: as they say, what's the first question people ask about a new baby?).



As I said before, though: "Maybe that's just me." I'm sorry for my lack of clarity, or if I offended anyone (GG's feet are a regular food group).



Nuff said (here): now let's just all enjoy the show, 'kay?



GG Re aftershave: I have been known to wear it. I just hope that mine was a *good* one (and in the right amount)! Out

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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I responded to Grace because---however she IDs (if she ever does, explicitly)---I thought I could see something of myself in her. Do I mean that Grace is a gender-queer, quasi-FTM bi-dyke (like me)? Not at all. Only that something about her resonates in me, in a way that I almost never see in the media. But she could also resonate w/ lesbians, straight women, gay guys: heck, every kind of person. I'm just saying what *I* see.

---

Well ok, I get that totally. That just did not come across in your previous posts, it sounded like you were saying that Grace has gender issues, period. By extension that means/implies that any woman who behaves in a similar manner to Grace must have gender issues herself, and that can be an upsetting claim, not because gender issues themselves are an offensive notion, hell no, but more because it is hurtful that someone else claims to know what you must be feeling -or that you are- something other than what you *know* you are. People assumed I was a lesbian because...and it upset me not because I have 'issues' with lesbianism, but because I am not a lesbian, never was, never will be. When I came out to a friend of mine, even then she still assumed I was a lesbian, according to her I was just in denial about it. I mean hello, I think I know best. Ahem, anyway, I really want to see this show for myself now, hee.



I will take you up on your suggestion and reply to the second half of your post in the trans thread.

The last mosquito that bit me had to check into the Betty Ford Clinic.

--Patsy Stone

[sprhrgrl]

Does anyone know of any good JoA websites? Because with my lack of cable I want to know what happened on the show. . . But that is hard with no websites.



Thank you.



And as I mentioned, my bottom line on Grace is that she is hot. (: And the kind of kid I would want to hang out with at school. Yaaay funny kids.

she's my everything

Sweetie, I'm a fag. I been there. - Tara (Dead Things shooting script)

A muscle cramp? in your. . . pants? - Tara (Older & Far Away)

[BytrSuite]

TWoP is recapping the show, sprhrgrl, so if you wait a bit they'll have the recap up before the next ep airs.



JoA.com is good for general information and casting.

________
"Oh, good! I was hoping to add theft, endangerment and insanity to my list of things I did today."
"Ah! You, too?"
(Stitch laughs delightedly)

Edited by: BytrSuite at: 10/12/03 8:46 am

[sprhrgrl]

Thank you much much, BytrSuite - that's perfect. (:



And StitchStitchStitchStitchStitch!





(heeey, i'm a teeny tinkerbell light now)

she's my everything

Sweetie, I'm a fag. I been there. - Tara (Dead Things shooting script)

A muscle cramp? in your. . . pants? - Tara (Older & Far Away)

Edited by: sprhrgrl  at: 10/12/03 4:22 pm

[BBOvenGuy]

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch has published Executive Producer Barbara Hall's "Ten Commandments" for writing God on JoA. Here they are:

Quote:

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1. God cannot directly intervene.

2. Good and evil exist.

3. God can never identify one religion as being right.

4. The job of every human being is to fulfill his or her true nature.

5. Everyone is allowed to say no to God, including Joan.

6. God is not bound by time - this is a human concept.

7. God IS NOT A PERSON and does not possess a human personality.

8. God talks to everyone all the time in different ways.

9. God's plan is what is good for us, not what is good for him.

10. God's purpose for talking to Joan, and to everyone, is to get her (us) to recognize the interconnectedness of all things, i.e. you cannot hurt a person without hurting yourself; all of your actions have consequences; God can be found in the smallest actions; God expects us to learn and grow from all our experiences. However, the exact nature of God is a mystery, and the mystery can never be solved.

---

Not bad for Hollywood, if you ask me.

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

[BytrSuite]

Thanks for posting that, Bob. That's pretty cool.



When they started advertising for this show, I had no intention of watching it. And of course they overplayed the promos so the "cute" god just really really started annoying me and seemed creepy. I think I ended up giving it a chance because I read a good review. I'm glad I did.



I love the sibling interactions. It rings true how they take shots at each other but are still protective of each other. It's very cool.

________
"Oh, good! I was hoping to add theft, endangerment and insanity to my list of things I did today."
"Ah! You, too?"
(Stitch laughs delightedly)

[Cicca]

I think I may have mentioned that I was still waiting for this show to grab me. I think it has. There's a lot going on and everyone's so interesting. And God just makes me laugh!



Thanks for posting those rules. Great stuff.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[winnithepeg]

saw it for the first time last week; good show. nice to see the girl who was Emily on general hospital, i was sad when she left that role.

holy crap sometime Jason Ritter reminds me so much of his dad (r.i.p.), just certain expressions on his face and stuff. also big yay for having a dyke character that actually looks like a (stereo)typical dyke.

what if the hokey pokey is what it's all about?

Edited by: winnithepeg at: 10/14/03 4:02 pm

[Gatito Grande]

Quote:

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also big yay for having a dyke character that actually looks like a (stereo)typical dyke.

---

Well, we'll see. I still have this ominous feeling we're being set up for a reversal ("See, if they wanna, straight grrls can look dyke-y too!") . . . but maybe I'm being paranoid.



The fact that they say, in an upcoming ep, that *Luke* (heh, love using that emoticon here) will be teased for his relationship to Grace. You'd think that Joan would (by evil 'phobes, I mean)! Although they showed a little of that last week.



GG Love the "God Writing Rules," though I'm not sure about the "God can't have a human personality" rule. Haven't we seen God's personality? S/He seems kind of playful and smart-alecky (then again, how could S/He not be smart-alecky?) Out

[tyche]

Interesting how they contrast 'supernatural' shows like the X Files with JoA.

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www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ar...DT0623.DTL

`Joan of Arcadia' hints at a new dramatic trend: religiosity



FRAZIER MOORE, AP Television Writer

The search for truth takes many paths, especially on television, where truth-seekers can vary as much as Mulder and Scully differ from the schoolgirl of CBS' new "Joan of Arcadia."



Think back to a decade ago, when "The X-Files" drew on the occult, the metaphysical and the just plain weird as it proclaimed the truth to be "out there." Before long, a wave of me-too dramas were also tapping into viewers' unease with their world, to join "The X-Files" in dangling the prospect of answers "out there" in some faraway realm.



Then, three seasons ago, "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" spurred a backlash against extraterrestrial truth. On "CSI," down-to-earth answers can be gleaned from material evidence close at hand. Truth reveals itself in rational terms. All Gil Grissom and his investigative team -- or we -- have to do is look.



Embraced by viewers for its clinical detachment from death and doubt (particularly welcome after the tragic events of Sept. 11, 2001), "CSI" has spawned a wave of "forensics procedurals" -- crime dramas like "Without a Trace," "CSI: Miami" and this fall's new "Cold Case" and "Navy NCIS."



But this trend, like every TV trend, could fast fall victim to oversaturation and viewer burnout.



So what will be the next big thing? The brashly offbeat premise for "Joan of Arcadia," and its sizeable audience in its first few weeks, suggest a swing back to the sacred for TV's truth-seekers.



Airing Fridays at 8 p.m. EDT, "Joan of Arcadia" introduces us to an ordinary 16-year-old girl with a penchant for running into folks who reveal themselves to her as God, then give her chores to do.



The tasks -- like getting a part-time job at a book store or joining the chess club -- may seem like odd things for God to be concerned with. Odder still: He doesn't really order Joan to do them.



"I give suggestions, not assignments," says God, at that moment facing Joan as a sanitation worker. "Free will is one of my better innovations."



The reassuring message of the show: Divine intervention, and the answers it might lead to, can conceivably occur with any personal encounter.



But such deliverance can be exasperating. When God pops up as a little girl at the playground, a cafeteria lady or a TV anchorman, Joan can't help wondering, "Why me?"



Joan's father Will (played by Joe Montegna) is a staunch realist, especially when pursuing evil-doers as police chief in Arcadia. But Joan's mother Helen (Mary Steenburgen) is looking to regain her spiritual faith in the aftermath of a car wreck that put Joan's brother Kevin in a wheelchair.



A former high school athlete, Kevin (Jason Ritter) must deal with this physical loss, while Joan's younger brother Luke (Michael Welch) takes grateful refuge in his intellect: Luke is a science geek or, in his preferred term, a man of science.



On "Joan," there is no violence, nor are there grisly displays as in the corpse-populated "CSI" genre.



Another big difference: While those series try to solve each mystery surrounding a death, "Joan of Arcadia" confronts the mysteries of life.



"Those are questions people wish they could ask God in person," says series star Amber Tamblyn, explaining why, like them, she identifies with her character.



"Joan is starting to focus on things she's never focused on before. But she's also an adolescent, and I know how that feels," says Tamblyn, 20. "You don't listen to people. You want to stay in your own little world."



Accordingly, Joan is often moody and self-centered.



"I'm NOT religious, you know," she informs God (who is now a cute guy at her school).



"It's not about religion, Joan," God tells her. "It's about fulfilling your nature."



"Uhhh," she stammers, "I definitely haven't done that."



Hallelujah! A moment of truth!



CBS' "Touched By an Angel," whose nine-year run ended last season, dispatched its angels each week to help people in spiritual distress. A gentle drama preaching an explicit gospel (God loves us), it was tremendously successful. Yet it spawned no imitators, triggered no craze.



Maybe "Joan of Arcadia" will have a broader impact. It presents the sacred less in spiritual terms than as a Learning Annex seminar in character growth, with God himself the instructor. It feels good and it's thought-provoking. And since God in his omniscience can handle any load, it invites countless spinoffs.



More shows about people in more towns meeting God: This could be bigger than "Law & Order."



On the Net:

http://www.cbs.com

---

[Cicca]

So I seem to be hooked on this show. I guess that's three new shows for me this year. Might be a record! This one, Cold Case, and Karen Sisco. Mmmmmmmmm, Karen Sisco!

Is it in any way wrong that God is cracking me up? I think maybe it's not.

Eagle-eyed viewers of that show that went horribly wrong will recognize that scary teen-home lady. *shudder* I like her much better as God!



As for Grace...

Quote:

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Well, we'll see. I still have this ominous feeling we're being set up for a reversal ("See, if they wanna, straight grrls can look dyke-y too!" . . . but maybe I'm being paranoid.

---

As far as I'm concerned, Grace can be whatever she wants to be, genderwise, sexually... I'm already happy to see a teenaged girl looking the way she does. I may be projecting, but to me, she's being the way she wants to be and not subscribing to a typical or "traditional" femininity. So long as they don't pull an Ally Sheedy in The Breakfast Club on her, I'm fine. If she's a straight girl, yeehaw, if she's a gay girl, yeehaw! Any kind of girl. Or boy, for that matter.

One of my favourite bits in But I'm A Cheerleader was the girl who broke down saying that she liked guys and she wasn't gay just because she looked the way she did.



Oh yeah, I'm editing to add that I'm in no way trying to sound like I'm attacking GG for her thoughts. Heck no! If it's written badly, that reversal bit would be lame. So far, I'm cautiously optimistic that the writers will handle Grace's character well. *crossing my fingers*





Oh yeah, and the boat. I love the boat.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

Edited by: Cicca  at: 10/18/03 8:48 am

[xita]

Ahh, I love this show. I am confident that whatever they decide with Grace will be done well. They've already dedicated an episode on her right to be an individual , you know? I did notice she didn't like being called dude , or maybe it was just the phrase dude that annoyed her. Who knows!



Oh but I felt for Joan. She's like getting in trouble for the things god asks her to do but while she seems to be making a difference in the life of others, her just keeps getting tangled. Maybe it was just me but at the end I saw joy that her brother and father were talking, but I also saw sadness as if she'd lost something... her boat.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Gatito Grande]

Quote:

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Eagle-eyed viewers of that show that went horribly wrong will recognize that scary teen-home lady. *shudder* I like her much better as God!

---

I knew I recognized her from a bunch of stuff, but I'd forgotten the show-that-went-horribly-wrong appearance. Though I did catch the same of Navy-Captain-God (the smoking guidance counselor, Beauty and the Beasts)!



And whatever Grace's orientation (I'd say it's fairly certain at this point she IDs as female), I hope we see more of her than we did in this last ep. It's pretty clear we're gonna get Adam's backstory, and I hope we get Grace's too (I've got nothing against slacker-dudes, but they're not as special as Grace, IMO).



GG Hmmm, who does the casting on this show? Amber Tamblyn, the Ritter connection, these two guests: could there be a pattern developing here? Then again, the principal came over from "Xena"! ( (King Con) Out

[xita]

Ooh I agree more grace!!



And that kid, stoner, slacker dude, he's kind of like a brunette version of brian crakow (sp?) from My so called life. If that's the case, he ain't ever getting Joan!

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Cicca]

Yes! Brian Krakow!!!!!!!!!

That's who he reminds me off. I keep thinking he's related to someone or I've seen him in something... Maybe I have. I don't mind hearing more about him because I suspect they'll make all of these characters interesting. And yes, more Grace! I loved her objection to dude. I know people who say it all the time and it drives me nuts!



And hooray on the principal thing! I knew I'd seen him, but I'd forgotten about him on Xena. One of her more believable boy-toys... Well, when Ulysses is what you measure from, anything is believable. I think he was also a teacher on GH when Jennifer Skye was on. Who also went on to Xena (very obnoxious Amarice) and Cleopatra 2525 (hilarious and shrill Cleo).



I didn't notice Joan being sad about losing her boat. Mean me! I was so busy being relieved that the dad and brother were doing something. And even if Joan's boat sucked, she was excited about it. That was cool.



I like this show.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[BBOvenGuy]

Quote:

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I felt for Joan. She's like getting in trouble for the things god asks her to do but while she seems to be making a difference in the life of others, hers just keeps getting tangled.

---

Ah, but to me that's one of the most realistic parts of the whole show.

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf