Joan of Arcadia

[The Rose24]

Another magnificent episode.



Joan ends up saving a lot of people's lives in the end.

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

[Gatito Grande]

Dang. I really should have seen that ending coming (that Joan prevented a school shooting massacre, by reaching out to the troubled boy), but I didn't.



I think Fred Koehler did an *incredible* job as "Steve Ramsay." This was a character which could have been a cartoon, but instead was heart-breakingly real. He let it all hang out, unafraid to not be pretty on camera (these kind of performances always get to me. See, for example, Geraldine Page's Oscar-winning turn in The Trip to Bountiful). Bravo!



So what does everybody think of Grace and Luke? While on the one hand, I wish Grace was not written to constantly (intentionally) "subvert type" (ala "I will prove I'm not a lesbian, no matter how butch I am"), I can't help the fact that I am, myself, falling in love w/ Luke. He's so cluelessly charming!



Did Joan clean up yummily tonight at the dance, or what? Darn it AmberT, I thought I was supposed to ID w/ Joan, your challenged character, not over you! Speaking of that character, each time Joan digs herself in deeper, I keep thinking she's going to open up to someone (my nominee is still Adam) . . . but not yet.



The "Arcadia is a Political Mess" part is building, but it still seems somehow remote from the immediacy of the other characters's lives (micro vs. macro). Though I guess it wasn't last week.



And virtually no Kevin this week. I almost wondered if it was to give Jason Ritter time off after his father died, but wasn't this filmed considerably after that? (Then again, maybe he really couldn't take much time off from his shooting schedule, and had to wait, poor guy )



GG Now, how many weeks until new episodes? I really *need* new JofA every week! Out

[xita]

You know, I missed the first half hour so I missed a lot. I actually hated God spelling out the reasons why her actions mattered. I don't think god had done that before.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[Cicca]

I don't think God's really done that either. Not so specifically. I'm glad to know that Joan made a difference, so I can go with it.

And is Old Lady God the scary bad old lady who hurts teenagers from Buffy? Look I've forgotten the name (heehee!), but Tara was in it. Yum.



Grace.... I'm just loving her. I know I protested way back when about doing the Ally Sheedy in The Breakfast Club thing, but the strapless pink dress kicked ass and Grace owned it!

And Luke.... I Luke. He is so adorable and brainy and geeky and I just want to hug him!



Joan and Adam. I'm actually turning into a Joan and Adam 'shipper. I just want them to talk and hug and be friends again. This teenage angst and pain is awful! Ok, not as awful as how they ended My So-Called Life... Maybe Claire Danes could show up as Joan's older cousin. Yeah.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[tyche]

Wow. I really liked this episode, though I am still longing for an episode where there's some real conflict between Joan and God. (I was hoping that this week Joan would tell God to shove off.)

Grace rocks! My interpretation of her kissing Luke and dragging him onto the dance floor was that she likes to subvert people's expectations. Grace really doesn't like to be labelled, which is why she was at the dance in the first place - because nobody expected her to go. And her resistance to being labelled was an interesting counter-point to the storyline with Steve, who was so sick of being labelled a nasty, angry bully that he didn't know how to get out of that rut, and ended up acting as badly as everyone thought he would.

Well, the Girardi family finally agrees on something - that they don't want to go back to counselling. This is clearly progress.

I actually thought the ending was really moving, though I also thought it was somewhat obvious, too.

Joan and Adam are really destined to be estranged because of her mission, aren't they? Maybe God doesn't want them to be together for some reason. In this episode I thought (as a Joan/Adam shipper) that it's becoming more obvious that Joan has really strong feelings for Adam, but that she is (obviously) afraid to admit it. (Her mother going on about how great he is probably doesn't help either. Helen definitely needs to employ some reverse psychology and tell Joan not to date Adam.)

The really interesting thing about this episode is how Joan's parents thought that her sudden interest in Steve meant she was going off the rails, rather than trying to do something good. It's generally the case in this show that good is achieved through small actions which don't have immediately apparent consequences. Definitely something to ponder.

[Cicca]

I forgot to ask this earlier....

In the police station when Girardi and the trusty assistant (I don't know her name, sorry) were approached by the other woman about the funny financial records, it sounded to me like she said "Ramsay". As in a former police chief Ramsay....? Did anyone else hear that? Which would maybe make him the kid Ramsay's father and would explain how the kid is such an amazing shot and knows stuff like "shoot between heartbeats".

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?



As for Grace, I still don't know what's going on inside, but she certainly presents an interesting face to the world.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[Gatito Grande]

Y'know, Cicca, I heard that too (the name "Chief Ramsay" come up w/ Lt. Toni Williams) but I figured it was either my bad hearing, or a really bizarre coincidence.



tyche,

Quote:

---

Joan and Adam are really destined to be estranged because of her mission, aren't they? Maybe God doesn't want them to be together for some reason.

---

We know that God didn't want Joan to tell Adam earlier (when God said something about "not adding to his burden"---this was before Joan found out about his mom). I kinda think that He/She/It is pushing Joan to the limit, in order to get her to tell someone (about her mission) now (or very soon).



You know the saying "the way out is through" (a friend of mine also used to put it "I had a nervous breakthrough")? For some reason, I think that God is conspiring to bring Joan and Adam down to "rock bottom" (in 12-Step lingo), in order to rebuild them up together, on a far more intimate basis (probably inc. romantically/sexually at some point, but that's a good ways off at any rate). JMO.



GG Though for some reason, I also imagine it might be Kevin. As in, he asks her: "Joan, what's going on? I mean, what's REALLY going on?" Out

[Cicca]

Yep, maybe.... But whyyyyyyyyy?

Why, God, whyyyyyy?!







Interesting idea. Joan and Adam really are having some tough times.



And it's interesting that I'm not the only one to have heard "Chief Ramsay". I wonder if we'll get more of that kid. The actor was fantastic. Wowie.



I love this show!

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[lilkkgirl4u]

was anyone else amazed by friday's ep? it rocked! especially the sequence of events during and after their school dance..

[BBOvenGuy]

There was one previous episode where God spelled out what Joan had done, but he did it as a mime and it was funny.



What really dazzled me was the way Luke's science project idea came into play. As he explained, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that you can't know both the position and the velocity of an electron inside an atom, because the act of observing it changes it. It went almost unnoticed until God pointed out in the end that Joan's act of observing changed Ramsey.



Oh, and I got to play with a rail gun once when I was at Vanderbilt.

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

Edited by: BBOvenGuy  at: 12/18/03 4:18 pm

[SySnootles]

This show consistantly amazes me. And I have to agree with BBOvenGuy about the way Luke's project was worked into the core theme of the episode. Brilliant!



What also threw me for a loop was realizing that the guy who played Ramsey was the same actor who was Chip on "Kate & Allie." Makes me feel very very old.

Catie



"The purpose of life is not to be happy - but to matter, to be productive, to be useful, to have it make a difference that you lived at all." -- Leo Roston

[Gatito Grande]

OMIGOD, Catie, you're right!



I *knew* the name looked familiar. Physically, I was just marveling at how atypical his looks were, for an actor, to think about much else, but there was something slightly familar there, too. Thanks for connecting the dots!



GG If you've noticed, I try and avoid imdb---I like the fun of testing my memory! Anyone watching the new show "Line of Fire"? There was a dark-haired guest star FBI agent (male), who's familiar face is driving me nuts (that show also has an actress who's also on . . . well, we won't go there. She's better on "Line of Fire"!). Out



ETA: Eureka! Not only did I remember where I'd seen that guy (above), but I had one of those great "train of thought" moments to get there: 1) I was watching a PBS program on Dickens, showing London, which 2) reminded me of a recent episode of Alias set there, which 3) reminded me of a guest star on that episode whom 4) I'd recently seen in the movie Mulholland Drive: was it the guy? No, but that made me think again about *another* character in Mulholland Drive. 5) BINGO! The guy in "Line of Fire" was the guy who died of fright in MD. (It's just like playing "Six Degrees of Separation" in your own head )

Edited by: Gatito Grande at: 12/17/03 6:00 pm

[Cicca]

Ramsay is Chip?!?!?

Holyyyyy molyyyyyyy!



I can't get my brain around that!!

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[theatremouse]

whoa. that brings me back.

i heard "cheif ramsay" too, but then it seemed like they referred to the same guy again and he had a different last name. or i got really confused.

i'm not sure now.

at first i thought it mustve been a not caught bloop.



i guess we'll find out.



on the jason ritter front: i'm not sure when this episode was taped, i know they were airing a few, back at the begining, when it wouldnt matter continuitywise so much, not in the original intended order. but how early i found that out led me to some conclusion that they had A LOT in the can before the seaosn started. what # are we on anyway....thatd help in figuring out when that ep was shot. and such.

i actually dont recall ever seeing him at all in that episode.

oh well.

[gspiggott]

Amber Tamblyn was nominated for a Golden Globe today for Joan.Yay!

[xita]

ooh yay for her!

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[tyche]

Barbara Hall (the creator of JoA) was named by Ms magazine as one of their 50 women who made a difference in 2003. Here's what they said about her:

Quote:

---

Barbara Hall - TV writer/producer, Los Angeles

[...] This fall, CBS premiered Hall's newest series, 'Joan of Arcadia', again with a powerful female lead. Joan is a high school student who talks to God. Despite what the premise may suggest, neither Joan nor Hall, who's 42 and a convert to Catholicism, presumes to preach. "I have a lot of rules about what God can tell people and say to people," she has said of her scripts. "He has to be basically rooting for us."

---

Edited to add: Yay, we get a new episode this Friday. The summary is kind of spoilery regarding a character from a previous episode, so I'm posting a link instead of the whole thing.

Edited by: tyche at: 1/5/04 11:14 am

[WebWarlock]

Amber Tamblyn will be in Sunday's Parade magazine.



No. Not the one in England (perverts) but the one that appears in many US papers. Same one Aly was in a few months back.



I'll report back here with the news on Sunday.



Warlock

-----

Web Warlock

The Other Side,
home of Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks. Available Now!

"I'm going to open a bag of freak on all of you..." - Dr. Drakken, from "A Very Possible Christmas"

[BBOvenGuy]

A comment in another thread sent me off to Google for articles comparing Joan of Arcadia to Buffy, and lookie lookie what I found - and from Andrew Greeley, no less:

Quote:

---

Exit Buffy, Enter Joan



Sunday, November 30, 2003



Buffy the Vampire Slayer has finally gone off into the sunset where vampire slayers go when there are no more vampires to slay.



She has been replaced (on another network) by an equally remarkable teenage woman — Joan of Arcadia, to whom God talks, as to a modern Joan of Arc.



The Girardi family has moved to Arcadia because Will, the father (the incomparable Joe Mantegna), has been named temporary police chief on probation; the mother, Helen (Mary Steenburgen), works at the local high school and tries to cope with the tragic paralysis of their older son, a high school sports star paralyzed in an auto accident. Will has to cope with crooked politicians, Helen with a polished but hypocritical high school principal.



As if they didn't have enough problems, their second child, Joan, a typical high school sophomore (Amber Tambyn), has been acting strangely, even more strangely than most sophomores. Small wonder — God has been talking to her and giving her suggestions on what to do, none of which make a whole lot of sense.



The premise of the series is that if God talked to a 14-year-old in France in the 14th century, there is no reason why he shouldn't talk to a 16-year-old in contemporary California.



All that Buffy (Sarah Michelle Gellar) had to do was kill vampires. Joan's task is much more difficult. She must deal with a God who appears in strange guises — a lunch lady, a woman at the bus stop, a little girl brat at the playground, a cute boy her own age on the bus. The instructions are strange and Joan resists, only to learn that she should have listened. God, after all, knows everything. He always respects Joan's freedom, but pursues her relentlessly.



Most recently, God told her about Joan of Arc. She becomes so interested that she reads up on the Hundred Years War, insults her history teacher and aces a test. God speaks to her at the bus stop and tells her that people don't like show-offs and that the history teacher deserves her respect. She is accused of cheating on the test and refuses to take it over, till God tells her to. She aces it again, of course, and restores the teacher's faith in his teaching.



The God imagined by Barbara Hall, the creator of the show, is a politically correct God. He does not fix things. He does not intervene directly. Yet he (or often she) is someone whom you can't help but like, a God in whose presence you want to be, a gentle and patient God who loves Joan and everyone else — and a God who doesn't hesitate to say ruefully, "I told you so." God does not intrude with his own happy endings, as angels are alleged to in the show "Touched by an Angel."



God is wondrously complex but both unerring and patient. Joan sometimes finds God unbearably pushy and argues, which doesn't seem to bother God at all. Joe Mantegna says in one of his interviews about the program that because Joan has an Italian father, God should be no problem. One understands his point, yet a God who is not a problem is no God at all.



And the bad guys, the dweebs, remind one of Pierre Cauchon, the count-bishop of Beauvais who helped the Brits to murder the first Joan while she was still a teenager.



The people in the show say that it is not really a religious program. They mean it does not push any particular denominational agenda and is not a prisoner of any ecclesiastical bureaucracy. There is a young priest in it, of the kind we need more of, and also a middle-aged rabbi of great wisdom. The program combines family and police procedural and comedy genres, yet religion in the proper sense of the word is at the heart of the program because it is finally about God.



Joan's God is a God who reveals himself through the people we encounter in our lives who are God's sacraments, a God who, like the Spirit in the Bible, blows whither he will, a God who respects our freedom but still is ingenious in drawing us to him (her), a God who does not make all the darkness go away but still shines in the darkness, a God who never gives up on us, no matter what, a God I'd like to know better.



Andrew M. Greeley is a Roman Catholic priest, author and sociologist. He teaches at the University of Chicago and the University of Arizona. His column on political, church and social issues appears each Sunday in the Daily Southtown. Father Greeley's e-mail address is Agreel@aol.com, and his home page, which includes homilies for every Sunday, is http://www.agreeley.com.

---

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

Edited by: BBOvenGuy  at: 1/6/04 1:06 pm

[The Rose24]

Joan of Arcadia was soooo good tonight!!!!



I do not want to give away all but to summarize:



Adam calls her Jane!!! They kiss!!! Yay!!!!

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Edited by: The Rose24  at: 1/9/04 6:12 pm

[Gatito Grande]

I think tonight's ep can best be summarized:







GG Aaaargh! I actually thought tonight's ep was going to be a re-run---as per my newspaper's TV schedule---and didn't set up the VCR to tape it! Just glad I was faithful enough to watch it anyway. Out

[Webberific]

I agree, GG and The Rose...I also loved this episode! Network TV has been unimaginably dismal this year but this show seems to get stronger with each episode.



The Rocky character was adorable and I'm going to miss him. I think we can all learn from how he treated his death.



I kept expecting one of the family members to ask why Joan was reading the obituaries.



I laughed myself silly when Grace gave 'kudos' to Luke for telling her rabbi dad that Luke was spending the night with her and building a gun. Laughed. Myself. Silly.



On the other hand, I was kind of cringing when Luke and Grace were having their, uh, dreamy moment. What did everyone else think of this?



I love how Helen was Joan's envoy to Adam. She really is a cool mom. It would have been interesting to see how Joan asked her mom to do it.



When Adam said "Jane," I think every regular viewer of this show breathed a sigh of relief.



The note from Adam's mom was so beautiful. Good ripples! I was so choked up and crying during this entire scene.



I love love love the chemistry teacher. I'm glad she got to be in scenes outside a classroom setting. Plus, her rescuing a fear-stricken (or awestruck?) Glynis from the blast was fantastic.



The kiss was sweet, but I was a little disappointed by missing out on whatever conversation they had after Adam left the house (after Helen read the note) and before the science fair, when Joan is all smiley and holds his hand. I would have liked to see them talk.



This may sound too negative, so I'm sorry if it's too cynical (but I've learned to be cynical after watching TV shows that seem to be good)... but I really hope that God doesn't show up in the next episode and say "Joan, why are you kissing Adam? I never told you to start a romantic relationship with him." That would be so sad. I try to keep pretty spoiler-free, but could someone reassure me that that's not going to happen?

Edited by: Webberific at: 1/10/04 2:16 am

[BBOvenGuy]

Quote:

---

I really hope that God doesn't show up in the next episode and say "Joan, why are you kissing Adam? I never told you to start a romantic relationship with him."

---

Oh, I strongly doubt that will happen. God is all about free will in this show, remember? His attitude will probably be more like, "Okay, you kissed him. What are you going to do now?"



However, that doesn't mean Joan and Adam have smooth sailing ahead. A new article from SciFi Wire hinted at that. You can go to the article yourself if you want to be spoiled. Meanwhile, I will spill the article's main point - in the upcoming episode that's being described, one of God's manifestations will be played by Russ Tamblyn, Amber's father.



As for the episode itself, I agree that it was fantastic, but I think the director could have done a better job with the kiss at the end. It looked to me like Amber was about to start laughing over having to do the take in slow-mo.

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

Edited by: BBOvenGuy  at: 1/10/04 10:55 am

[Cicca]

That was just a phenomenal ep.

My tape was all wonky so I missed when Adam called her Jane. Durnit!

I'm very happy that the painful freeze is over. Yay! Yay Adam yay!



As for Luke and Grace.... I like them. At this point, I think Grace is a rebellious girl who digs Luke. Gay? I don't think so. Again, so long as they keep up with the smart writing, I'm good. Turn Grace into a bouncing, lipsticked cheerleader and I'll be annoyed.

"You can't unring a bell, baby" heheheheheheheheh Grace rang his bell! Luke rocks.

Ok, everyone on the show rocks. I love this show!

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[xita]

Ooh, he was Dr. Jacoby on Twin peaks and West Side Story, I didn't realize that was her father. Ooh!

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[tyche]

Wow, the writing on this show just gets better and better. I'll talk about the (very few) things I didn't like first.

I agree with Bob that the director kind of bungled the slow-mo kissing at the end. Also, the way the science fair fell apart - while funny - was a bit silly. The other things I didn't like were Helen saying to Joan "remember, it's a funeral" - did she think that Joan would mistake it for a dance party? - and the music in the scene where Helen was reading the note was just a bit too obtrusive and detracted from the dialogue. (In fact, that was such a powerful and moving scene, it really didn't need music. I also thought that it would have been better if that had been the final scene, as it was a bit jarring when they moved on to lighter stuff afterwards.)

Anyway, onto the good: yay for Adam and Joan. Yay for God for actually telling Joan to do something which doesn't upset Adam. Luke had some hilarious moments (especially where he was telling the FBI that any photos of naked ladies on his computer were his friend's fault) and Grace's remark about Luke's message was great. And we saw the boat again - wonder if it'll ever get finished? I also liked the way that Will solved the job situation - I have a hunch that he'll be happier as a regular 'tec.

And the acting was uniformly great, though Amber must be wondering when she'll get an episode where she doesn't have to cry. (She is great at crying, though.) The Adam and Joan scenes were just terrifically acted, and the scene where Grace told Joan about the note was excellent, too.

I think the strength of this show - and why it seems to get better with every new episode - is that the writers are not afraid to let the actors really test their range by having them do a whole range of material. Even the minor characters are well-written and developed, and that's the sign of a really good show.

[Puff]

Ok did anyone else laugh themselves silly when Joan thought that God was the Doctor? And also in the church when God appeared and Joan said "That's a scary look for you."



I loved last nights episode and what amazed me was that the episode basically dealt with death (and suicide) and yet I had the most fun watching it ever. Other shows should stand up and take notice of how well this one is written. On and the rail gun...brilliant!

---

So, the day started and I knew my name and had my pants on. So far, so good. Yay.
Amber Benson

Edited by: Puff  at: 1/10/04 1:51 pm

[Cicca]

Oh yeah, I laughed at the doctor!



This show is continually delightful. The writing and acting are just so fantastic.

Great stuff



And I still love that God's funny.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[Gatito Grande]

Y'know, I missed Adam calling Joan "Jane" too. (and w/o tape, can't watch it again )



I was kind of expecting (hoping?) that after Helen read the note, Adam would ask Joan to walk him home (but they must have "taken a moment" sometime before the Science Fair, as noted by the hand-holding). I thought the kiss was very sweet. (Speaking of music: whose version of "Across the Universe" was that? I've heard it before, but can't quite place it)



Re: the Chem Teacher: See above posts. I loved her first! (Now *there's * a crush for Science Grrl! Aaaack! Lookin' for subtext: can't help myself. )



Luke/Grace: still feel wildly ambivalent. I mean, I really like Luke. And I *love* Grace. But together? Kinda yes, and kinda no. I'm willing to see how they do it, however. (I mean "do it" ala how the relationship's written---Geez, people! )



Kevin/Rebecca: oh so happy for Kev, but still not sure what she sees in him (that is, between the ears, not below the waist). Kevin could be better written (compared to Joan and Luke). And then there is that dubious boss/subordinate thang . . . actually, as I think about Kevin, I'd like to see him inspired to go back to school (even minus the athletic scholarships). *Then* he could be an appropriate partner for Rebecca (not working for her anymore, I mean). Uh-oh, GG's got that fanfic mojo workin' . . .



Will: does this signal a direction-switch? As "just a detective," maybe the show will concentrate on the kids---writing Will in relation to them---as Helen already is? I think that would be a good idea: not because the grown-up's stories aren't important, but it makes the show's narrative too diffuse to have that "crime-show" aspect it's had.



GG "You can't unring a bell": great line, but I think it was Luke waxing macho---get the reversal-humor?---on *his* kissing prowess. Not the other way around . . . at least on a conscious level! Out



LOVE THIS SHOW!

[Cicca]

Oh, I totally read that line the other way!

I think Luke was saying that she rang his bell and he can't just forget it.

Which may sound slightly stalkerish, but I don't think it is at all!



I can see why Luke and Grace might be an issue for people, but I've got enough faith in the writerly talent on this show to give it a chance. If they blow it, I'll be really pissed off!

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?