The L Word - Lesbian Series for Showtime Network

[Gatito Grande]

I had the same reaction to that line, Holley, but I'm more willing to cut 'em some slack: they're new, and pushing the boundaries. They can't afford to be seen as just an "issue" show, as opposed to simply enjoyable entertainment, regardless of sexual politics. Very different from being already established and successful, and then taking bows for being bold and socially responsible . . .



GG . . . before stabbing (or shooting) their appreciative audience in the back Out



About the Sex in the City comparisons: regarding the beautiful bodies, what do you say to the argument that "Average straight women don't look like Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte either"? (And they're also not as "TV-rich"). Do the producers have a greater responsibility to show "Average Lesbians" than others do w/ straight characters (recognizing that so many more straight characters are on than are LGBTs)? I know I've heard directors like Spike Lee bristle when the "You have a greater social responsibility!" line is thrust at him (as an African-American).



I can honestly see it both ways.

[xita]

I have always disliked sex in the city precisely because none of those women are the kind of women I know and love. I always found it annoying because they are supposed to be the epitome of the modern woman. I am annoyed.

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"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[Slicey]

I too loved that article by Stacy D'Erasmo ~ it's one of the best articles out there about this show.



I still don't understand the views of those who are bashing this show for it's lack of diversity or for being unrealistic. This show is a drama ~ it never claimed to be reality programming. Having an extremely diverse cast in ways that were mentioned (race, income, sexuality, religion) is incredibly unrealistic in terms of good TV because most likely such a vastly different mix of people would never interract on a daily basis, much less be best friends. I'm not saying that different types of people don't mix every day, but this is a TV SHOW and it's based in West Hollywood. It's not a Benetton ad.



The world that Ilene Chaiken is creating here is a fun and interesting one, it's not a world made up entirely of feminists or activists who are constantly pushing a social cause... the stories are about a particular group of women living their lives. They're not supposed to be EVERYWOMAN, but they are supposed to be relatable. Not in terms of the job they have, the car they drive, who they date, or the color of their skin. It's their personalities and their inner struggles that make them relatable. And maybe their personality diversity is what we should be focusing on and not their ethnicity.



What you'll find in this show are characters struggling with: work, relationships, family, addiction, their identity, loneliness, regret, loss, coming out, adultery, racial issues, rejection, society/publicity... it will be about joy, and pain, and life.



If you want to know more, you can read the 'Defined' Transcript



I'm looking forward to watching these character's lives unfold on TV...if I wanted 'reality' in a stricter form I'd go hang out in West Hollywood...but personally, I find The L Word much more entertaining.



~Slicey

Nipple Confidence ~ Shane, The L Word

[sam7777]

Xita: Yeah I really hope that they don't try to make it Sex in the City. But this by Stacy D'Erasmo gives me doubts:

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TV-rich enough to spend a lot of time, in the way that TV people do, sitting around in cafes and trendy restaurants, flirting and discussing life. Their jobs are nominal; they have zero percent body fat; their teeth are blindingly white; everyone has sex constantly.

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I simply can't relate to these characters. They are like the characters that I couldn't relate to on Friends and Seinfeld. Just not my thing. "Queer as Folk" certainly has more economic diversity. I guess with the Paris Hilton thing that rich and white is in.



My jury remains out since I won't be able to see it till the DVD comes out. Kittens seem divided on it and

reviews are decidely mixed: ‘L’ is for lackluster

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‘L’ is for lackluster

Showtime’s new drama about a group of lesbians and their friends is mildly entertaining, but breaks little new ground.

By Binnie Fisher

Friday, January 09, 2004



WORD THAT SHOWTIME was developing an hour-long drama about the lives of a group of young Los Angeles women, most of whom are lesbians, was intriguing, to say the least.



Comedies such as “Ellen,” on ABC and “Will & Grace” on NBC paved the way for programming about gay men and lesbians, while “Queer as Folk” has found a loyal following on Showtime, the cable network that is scheduled to unveil “The L Word” at 10 p.m., Sunday, Jan. 18.



But the hype that precedes groundbreaking theater or television is one thing; reality is another.



Unfortunately, “The L Word” is a middling television drama, compared to what it could be with the resources and talent that have been funneled into its production.



Producers Ilene Chaiken, Steve Golin and Larry Kennar had the opportunity to do something really remarkable here — paint a true picture of what it is like to be a young lesbian in a world that is slowly coming to grips with same-sex orientation as a valid way of life. Instead, they took the low road.



“THE L WORD” stars Jennifer Beals, who gained fame in 1983 with her portrayal of an aspiring dancer in the movie “Flashdance,” and Laurel Holloman as Bette and Tina. After seven years together, the couple decides to have a child. The women’s world consists primarily of a cozy, upscale neighborhood and a popular café where they frequently gather with their lesbian friends.



Bette, the director of the California Art Center, is continually engaged in cell phone conversations, an early and obvious signal that there’s trouble in paradise. Tina has taken off work to focus on getting pregnant, if the right sperm donor can be found.



In the premiere episode, Bette and Tina seem to be constantly handing specimen cups to potential sperm donors. In one perplexing scene, they invite a stranger home to help them conceive a child the old-fashioned way. On another occasion, a potential donor takes the cup behind a screen and we get to watch (and listen) as he does what’s necessary to fill the little cup.



Meanwhile, in the house next door to Bette and Tina’s, Tim (Eric Mabius) moves his girlfriend, Jenny (Mia Kirshiner), in, which ignites even more intrigue. All seems to be well until Jenny steps into the café one day and locks eyes with its owner, Marina (Karina Lombard). The rest, as they say, is history.



AMONG THE GROUP of friends from the café is Shane (Katherine Moennig), who is reminiscent of rocker Joan Jett. Her trauma (she has to have one, doesn’t she) is that she’s being stalked by her ex, portrayed by Melissa Etheridge’s real-life partner, Tammy Lynn Michaels.



Besides Beals, the only other actor of color on “The L Word” is Pam Grier, who portray’s Bette’s half-sister. Grier made a name for herself during the ’70s in various “blaxploitation” films and in 1997 she experienced a comeback in Quentin Tarantino’s “Jackie Brown.” On “The L Word,” her character is in a 12-step program and her sole focus appears to be on making amends.



“The L Word” also includes Bette and Tina’s bi-friend, Alice (Leisha Hailey), and their closeted jock friend, Dana (Erin Daniels), who’s uncomfortable with women who “look gay” and is in love with the sous chef at the country club, though she isn’t sure which way she leans.



Some of the scenarios in which the women in “The L Word” find themselves could be handled deftly, elegantly and meaningfully, but they simply are not.



Viewers are gorged with mechanical sex scenes that lack sensitivity and romance. There also is a surplus of mediocre acting from players capable of so much more. The show offers an extremely shallow glimpse of what being a lesbian today is really like.

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Hmm "mechanical sex scenes that lack sensitivity and romance" now where have I seen that before? Doesn't matter just some crap that deserves to be forgotten.

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I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 1/12/04 2:32 pm

[Gatito Grande]

One thing I wonder about when a review says that a show is "middling drama," just how much have it have they seen? Just the premiere? All the eps in the can? Somewhere in between?



I'm a Glass Half-Full kind of person: if a show has a terrific premier, then I'm usually ready to jump onto it. But if it has a crappy premiere, I'm unlikely to write it off completely (and I'm very glad of that, if only for three words: "Encounter at Farpoint" ).



I also admit that, on those few occasions I'm able to see Sex in the City (on HBO Free Preview Weekends), I almost invariably do. It's funny, and I laugh (though I'd never want to have Carrie, Samantha, Charlotte and Miranda as friends in Real Life). I certainly wouldn't like The L Word to shape up as a "Lesbian Sex in the City," in any overly intentional way. But merely noting some similarities (Premium Cable. Women-focussed. Sex.: how could they not?) doesn't give me any foreboding, and if the writing and acting is as good, it could be a very Good Thing.



GG . . . anymore than I would like it to shape up as a Female "Queer as Folk" (which I also view those few times I can) either. Out

[Slicey]

It's very probably that many of these reviewers have only seen the first episode, or perhaps not even that. I read one review where the critic dashed it, compared it to some other things she thought were bad then said that maybe her opinion would change after she saw the first episode. She was 'reviewing' it without even having watched it. And I think many of the reviewers have only watched the first episode (and perhaps not the double ep as the pilot will be aired, but just part one of the pilot). Many reviewers who have seen all of the first 5 eps (that come in the press kit) have remarked that the series really starts picking up steam after the first few episode, and that viewers should stick with it. And hopefully they will.



Also, the cast, the crew, and some reviewers have likened each episode to an individual independent film in the way that they're created, filmed, and the storyline is set out. That comparison really intrigues me.



~Slicey

Nipple Confidence ~ Shane, The L Word

[sam7777]

Since I can't watch it until it gets to DVD, the reviews and what's posted here is all I have to go on. So far I just can't get excited about it. More mixed reviews:

Girl-on-girl inaction: This soap's pretty slow

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January 14, 2004

BY PHIL ROSENTHAL



A couple tries to get through a lull in the relationship and struggles to have a baby. A girlfriend has doubts about her longtime relationship with her boyfriend.



Another woman is worried that her love life may conflict with her business interests.



A magazine writer is eager to try to come up with catchy sexual terms, like "nipple confidence."



Carrie Bradshaw and the gang on HBO's "Sex and the City"? Not quite, though they in no way should mind the comparison. It's rival Showtime's "The L Word," a glossy but lazily paced new ** soap opera about the intertwined lives and legs of a clot of Los Angeles lesbians, bisexuals and bi-curious women.



Like their pay-cable network home, these women are sometimes a little too eager to announce themselves, a little too desperate to be embraced, a little less than interesting overall.



Banking on Howard Stern's old saw that "lesbians equal ratings," Showtime is promoting this Jennifer Beals-Mia Kirshner-Pam Grier series from former Aaron Spelling underling Ilene Chaiken as "Same Sex -- Different City."



The hope is that the fact that this neatly plotted melodrama's central characters are gay women is enough to distinguish a serial that merely proves what the enlightened viewers the series has to be courting already know -- that regardless of gender and orientation, people are just people.



Especially when they are fictional people.



More commercial in appeal and less likely to rock the boat than its Showtime bookend, the less-than-impressive Americanization of the British gay drama "Queer as Folk," "The L Word" is more "Melrose Place" than "Six Feet Under."



There's not a ton of subtext to sort through and the dialogue is clumsy. A distressed lover caught cheating in an early episode actually pleads: "Please, please, don't leave me! Because if you leave me, I think that I'll die!"



Who, besides soap opera characters, talks like this?



Naturally, "The L Word" boasts a good deal of the frankness and explicitness that pay-cable allows, mostly kissing, caressing, panting and plenty of nudity. But it doesn't really push any significant limits. The innovation ends at the orientation of its characters and, if you're looking for late-night titillation, you're probably better off with your typical Skin-a-max offering.



This stops well short of being "Red Sensible Shoes Diaries." It's just not as exciting as it could be. True, the women of "The L Word" are all attractive, physically at least.



Emotionally, though, nearly all of them seem just frayed enough to keep the languid story creeping along at an injured snail's pace.



Save for Marina (Karina Lombard), a coffeehouse proprietor who seems far more at ease in the world, and Shane (Katherine Moenning), the boyish, husky-voiced, love 'em and leave 'em type who's the Kevin Bacon of separation in the local lesbian community, the women of "The L Word" tend to lack confidence, nipple or otherwise.



There are museum curator Bette (Beals) and former development exec Tina (Laurel Holloman), a couple starting to itch after seven years together and looking to conceive a child. Bette's half sister (Grier) is a singer with a substance-abuse problem and other issues who pops in from time to time.



Dana (Erin Daniels) is a pro tennis player who's closeted for fear it will hurt her endorsement potential. Alice (Leisha Hailey) is a bisexual writer -- well, less a writer than a compiler of inane "best of" lists and "trend of the moment" magazine pieces -- who hasn't found success on either side of the sexual fence she straddles.



And then there's would-be author Jenny (Kirshner), newly arrived in Los Angeles to live with her boyfriend (Eric Mabius), a former Olympic swimmer who supposedly used to compete for University of Chicago and now coaches at a local university. Jenny has her head turned by that most trusty of loss-of-innocence movie cliches, the sight of two women frolicking in a next-door pool without a stitch of clothing or a care in the world.



There's a predictability to "The L Word" only made more bothersome by the slowness with which it all plays out, and this is compounded by turgid dialogue that works way too hard to convey ideas better left implied.



"You are going to pickle in that self-loathing homophobia, I swear," one of the woman scolds another in Sunday's debut.



"Oh yeah," the other responds. "Well, you're going to shrivel in that self-righteousness."



Self-righteousness is preferable to self-loathing.



Entertaining would be better still.

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TV: Showtime offers an edgy hour of lesbians looking for love

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Vince Horiuchi

Salt Lake Tribune Columnist



"The L Word" in Showtime's new one-hour drama could stand for "life," "love," "loyalty" and "Los Angeles" -- or "lesbians" since it revolves around the relationships of gay female couples in southern California.



But add "lust" and "loads of sex" to the mix because "The L Word" is a frank and explicit look at the love lives of these sometimes tortured Angelenos.



The most important word to describe the show, however, is "likable." This is a good-hearted examination of an interconnected group, even if the people in it sometimes seem obsessed with their own sexuality. The series also dabbles too often in soap-opera conventions.



"The L Word," which premieres Sunday at 11 p.m., focuses on two couples: a young writer and her boyfriend, and the lesbian partners who live next door.



The writer, Jenny (Mia Kirshner), moves in with her boyfriend (Eric Mabius) in a small suburban home in Los Angeles. He's a swimming coach, and together their life seems picture perfect and full of passion.



Next door are Bette (Jennifer Beals), a hard-working and responsible museum director, and her partner Tina (Laurel Holloman), who just quit her job to have a baby.



Their friends include a professional tennis player who is afraid to come out of the closet, the owner of a West Hollywood cafe and popular gay hangout, a bisexual journalist for a Los Angeles weekly and a freewheeling lover who has been breaking hearts.



The group meets often at the Hollywood cafe to talk about their relationships and the obstacles to developing a lesbian partnership in Los Angeles.



Bette and Tina are trying to find an appropriate donor for their baby, even throwing a party to check out prospective candidates. Meanwhile, Jenny begins to question her own sexuality when the cafe owner (Karina Lombard) seduces her.



t all sounds steeped in soap opera storylines, and sometimes feels that way, too. But after several episodes, the show began to grow on me because the characters are likable and not necessarily self-indulgent. They seem to grapple with real issues and work at sorting out real emotions. The fact that the couples are lesbian partners makes for some unique problems, such as the partners searching for an appropriate sperm donor.



It is probably one of the most sexually explicit dramas on television (if you don't include the late-night, hard-R sex series on Showtime), and the number of times they either talk about or perform sex seems gratuitous. But there also is a freshness in the way the show approaches the subject -- with a frankness never before seen with TV lesbian couples. It makes you realize how far we have come from the days when a simple kiss between two women created an uproar on "Roseanne."



Showtime has tried furiously to match the critical and viewership success of HBO with its own original programming. Some of the network's shows, including "Dead Like Me," have brought them closer.



While "The L Word" may not have the writing, acting or edge of "The Sopranos" or "Six Feet Under," the new drama has enough honesty to demonstrate that Showtime is trying.

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What I like about the mainstream press coverage over the gay rags is that they talk bout the story ideas and drama rather than just praise the lesbian benchmark. It gives me a better idea about what the show is about. I have to admit I'm really more into high concept shows like scifi or fantasy than soap like dramas which is prolly why I'm not getting into it.

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I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 1/14/04 4:45 pm

[Denial Queen]

here's another review from the HOLLYWOOD REPORTER:

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TV Review: the L Word

Wed January 14, 2004 06:40 PM ET



By Barry Garron

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - On the cover of its press kit, Showtime lists a few dozen words that begin with "L," such as "love," "lust," "libido" and "lovely," all of which are associated with its newest series about a group of friends and their relationships.



The only relevant omission, most assuredly intentional because it goes without saying, is "lesbian," a reference to the sexual orientation of most of the characters.



Having had reasonable success with "Queer as Folk," its venture into the world of gay men's drama, Showtime and executive producer-writer Ilene Chaiken now visit the lives of gay women, and, in at least one case, a woman whose sexual orientation is unclear even to herself. The result is a dramatic series that is steamy, provocative and filled with smart dialogue and richly drawn characters, none of whom are entirely predictable.



Start with Bette Porter (Jennifer Beals) and life partner Tina Kennard (Laurel Holloman) who, after seven years, have decided to start a family. Bette, being the Type-A career-driven one, continues to work at her job as art museum director, while Tina, the mellow and nurturing one, gets ready to be impregnated. But by whom? That's one dilemma that occupies a major part of the premiere.



The other big story involves Tim (Eric Mabius), their next-door neighbor, a college swimming coach and the eager boyfriend of Jenny (Mia Kirshner), an aspiring writer fresh from college. Jenny thinks her writing and Tim will make her world complete until she meets and gets the hots for Marina (Karina Lombard), the owner of the cafe where everyone hangs out. Poor Tim never sees it coming.



Others in Bette's and Tina's close circle of friends are Dana (Erin Daniels), the pro tennis player who keeps her gay life under wraps, at least initially; Shane (Katherine Moennig), the disarmingly charming one who prefers ever-changing bed partners; and Alice (Leisha Hailey), a freelance journalist who compiles charts to prove that every gay woman is no more than six degrees of separation from every other one. There's also Kit (Pam Grier), Bette's half-sister, a singer struggling to achieve sobriety.



Not surprisingly, the setting for nearly all the scenes is West Hollywood, cinematically depicted here to look like practically any middle-class suburb. The series is particularly well-cast, including several fresh faces and strong acting skills. It's also filled with enough passionate scenes of lovemaking to attract male viewers who might not otherwise be inclined to sample drama from a female perspective. Some of these viewers may even find themselves regretting that these characters are playing for the other team.



Premiere director Rose Troche does a nice high-wire balancing job, following the life and loves of these characters and never letting us forget the importance of both. If the premiere seems strangely lacking in references to the immediate families of these characters, be patient. Subsequent episodes will demonstrate the all-too-problematic existence of family members.

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and from US Weekly:

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The L Word



Yup, it stands for "lesbian". Jennifer Beals stars in a racy Sex and the City-style drama.



THE STARS: Jennifer Beals, Mia Kirshner, Pam Grier, Eric Mabius



THE STORY: This new series about a gagle of groovy lesbians and their pals in LA's funky-chic Spaulding Square district plays like a heavier Sex and the CIty - just tweak the gal's orientation and add some soap! The trouble bubbles when sensitive Jenny (Kirshner) and her beau (Mabius) move in next door to baby desiring duo Better and Tina ( Beals and Holloman). That opens jenny up to hidden passions - and an exotic cafe owner named Marina ( Karina Lomabard)



WHAT's GOOD: The concept is groundbreaking and considering how easily this could be Red Shoe Diaries, so are the involving storylines and fairly relatable characters. The star - including Tammy Lynn Michaels, who gueststars as a snarling ex-lover- shine, but give extra credit to Beals, whose winning naturalness helps make the very frank love scenes believable. Let the EMMY hype begin!



WHAT's BAD: Kirshner's "oh my god, I'm a lesbian" story line is a bit creaky. And the shenanigans cometimes awkwardly shift into the too-cutes. For example, the gals' mission to teach "gaydar" to closeted tennis pro Dana (Erin Daniels) seems like a spoof of Queer Eye.



FINAL SAY: *** (three stars), In a Word, LOVELY!

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and a longish article/interview with rose troche and some of the cast members:



Windy City Media Group Article: The L Word Debuts this Sunday





Even with the occasional negative review, i'm still looking forward to this show because frankly, i'm tired of having to look for every hint of subtext in otherwise straight shows, hoping against hope that they'll make the character gay. The show may be imperfect but it's definitely a step in the right direction. At the very least, none of them will probably become crazy/evil and or DIE.

Edited by: Denial Queen  at: 1/14/04 8:03 pm

[sam7777]

I'm tired of subtext too but the whole badness with ME has made me incredibly cynical. I can no longer feel automatically grateful that someone has deigned to put lesbians on TV.

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At the very least, none of them will probably become crazy/evil and or DIE.

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Ah but then you limit their "creative freedom". All that stuff may seem like cliches to you and me but is high drama to TV producers. The baby thing makes my eyes glaze as does the "love triangle". And I'm tired of seeing "life" through the prism of the young, beautiful, affluent and mostly white (regardless of sexual orientation). Well I won't be able to watch it until it's out on DVD (it's cheaper to rent the DVD than pay for Showtime) so I'll be able to see what Kittens have to say here before committing to watch it.



ETA: And another New York Time article. This one talking about the the titillation factor.

Women Having Sex, Hoping Men Tune In

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Women Having Sex, Hoping Men Tune In

By ALESSANDRA STANLEY

January 16, 2004



Except for the politics and soft-core pornography, "The L Word," Showtime's new series about lesbians that starts on Sunday, is old-fashioned fun — more "Melrose Place" than "Sex and the City."



The show's equivocal message does stand out, however, though perhaps not quite as much as the steamy scenes of women making love.

       

"The L Word" has been marketed by Showtime as a kind of premium-cable Certs: a manifesto of lesbian liberation and visual candy for men. This was not the case for Showtime's other groundbreaking series, "Queer as Folk," about the sex lives of gay men. (For whatever reason, what is good for the gander leaves the goose cold: few women report being aroused by the sight of men kissing each other.)



In that sense, "The L Word" conveniently fits in with a trend currently preoccupying magazines, afternoon talk shows and parents' meetings: young women, including high school students, who experiment with bisexuality both for a sense of female empowerment and as a way to seduce men.



To some, that can seem like an oxymoron. There may be nothing wrong with performing Sapphic acts to entice the opposite sex, but it is hard to reconcile such tableaus with gay or feminist ideals of independence and self-respect. And it is surely belittling to reduce lesbians' sexual identity to a form of heterosexual foreplay. The contradiction sticks out, even if it has become fashionable to view it as post-feminist — a way to exclude men while still attracting them.



"The L Word," of course, does not exclude men at all. While ostensibly celebrating the lesbian life, the two-hour pilot is in such a rush to pander to male viewers that at times it seems less like an American television show than a hastily dubbed Swedish "art" film. Each new plot development works as a perfunctory excuse to introduce another sexual variation — a man alone, a man with a woman, two women, two women and a man, etc.



All the women are beautiful, which on the one hand works to dismiss the stereotype of lesbians as squat, plaid-shirted and mannish. On the other, they are all so exquisite, even by the high standards of affluent Los Angeles, that it plays into another stereotype — and male fantasy — of the lipstick lesbian.



The pilot, however, is a poor advertisement for the series. Subsequent episodes slow down and relax, giving the characters a chance to develop and relationships to settle in — and unsettle. There are interesting, likable protagonists, some genuinely funny scenes and amusingly complicated romances. (It turns out that the plight of the single gay woman in Los Angeles is only slightly different from that of the single straight woman — all the good ones are taken, or not gay.)



The real L word of the show is not lesbianism but loyalty, the fellowship that binds and softens a group of what on the surface appear to be prickly, overly indulged middle-class women. (They drive convertibles, take spinning classes and eat at the trendiest restaurants.) And these female friends are more nuanced and plausible than the stick-figure heroines on HBO's "Sex and the City."

...

There is quite a bit of nudity and explicit sex on "The L Word," but it is the quantity more than the quality that is novel to television. Far more than for men, mores have changed quite a bit since ABC tried to censor a kiss between Roseanne Barr and Mariel Hemingway in a 1994 episode of "Roseanne."



There was no fuss when Jennifer Aniston kissed Winona Ryder on "Friends." Fox was unable to stir up interest in its cop show "Fastlane," even after the writers put Tiffani Thiessen topless in a hot tub with two lipstick lesbian suspects. Last year BBC America had no qualms about showing explicit lesbian love scenes in "Tipping the Velvet." Even the infamous kiss between Madonna and Britney Spears at the 2003 MTV Video Music Awards was less shocking than shockingly calculated.



It is the sight of men canoodling that is still rare on television. There is a lot of talk about gay promiscuity on NBC's "Will & Grace," but very little action — the straight female characters have probably kissed one another more than the gay men have. "Queer as Folk" was and still is a daring series to put on the air. The distaff version is not nearly as bold. But the series has something to offer besides sexual imagery and sophistry — it is a well-written, entertaining show, with or without the L word.

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It's a long article that also talks about the plot of the show so check out the link as well.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 1/15/04 10:54 pm

[xita]

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At the very least, none of them will probably become crazy/evil and or DIE.

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tsk , tsk, watch what you say



I will obviously watch it and I would love for nothing better than for it to surprise me. I think it's greatest failure could be to bore me so we'll see!

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"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[unixrules]

I would hope that people actually watch the show for a few episodes before judging whether it's worthwhile.



Some positives already for the show:



1.it's produced by an out lesbian

2.it has a lesbian actress playing a bisexual

3.some of the directors & writers are also gay



Let's keep an open-mind before lamblasting a show that hasn't even aired yet.



As for the argument that the TV viewing audience isn't seeing an accurate representation of lesbians-gay folk run the whole gamut of shapes,sizes & colours.



What's wrong with seeing the lovely ones?



As for the male titillation factor-well,that's a fact of life.

Guys get turned on when they see 2 girls.

This doesn't invalidate love/sex between 2 women.

Embrace the fact that our sexuality entices the straight guys-'cause they can't get what we have.

Edited by: unixrules at: 1/16/04 12:04 am

[xita]

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As for the argument that the TV viewing audience isn't seeing an accurate representation of lesbians-gay folk run the whole gamut of shapes,sizes & colours.



What's wrong with seeing the lovely ones?

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I am sorry, are you saying that women of different colors and shapes and sizes are not lovely? How incredibly offensive.





And lambasting? I don't see anyone doing any such thing. I see people expressing a healthy skepticism. We are all entitled to our opinions. I also haven't seen anyone say they won't watch it because of this. I am certainly going to watch it, even if I end up not liking it.



I never liked Queer as Folk. I didn't like what it had to say about gay men or the way it was delivered. Even my love for gay porn could not overcome the shortcomings of this show.



I would have preferred if this show was more like Six Feet Under. It is incredibly disappointing that Rose Troche and Guin are involved in this and that their product is so shallow.



It's great that there is a lesbian show, and I am hoping it just opens up the way for more, but I would have preferred if the series was less of a soap opera. I won't stop being critical of it, if it is what I feel. Lesbians don't get a free ride just because they are lesbians. There is a lot of talent involved and I hope it pays off eventually.

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Embrace the fact that our sexuality entices the straight guys-'cause they can't get what we have.

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I don't have to embrace such a thing. And we certainly don't have to cater to it. Obviously, I love my lesbian sex as much as anybody but I await anxiously the way the show sex in this show. The portrayal will suggest whether its target is titilation. I would rather see sex in context and with meaning, than gratuitous encounters. If there is too much of the latter than the intent is clearly titilation.

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"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

Edited by: xita  at: 1/16/04 7:21 am

[Iamyouknowyours]

Too bad, it sounds like a bust. I love Queer as Folk, and was rather excited at the prospect of a show about the lives of lesbians. However if they're hyping it as the gay Sex in the City it is definitely not for me. I can't stand that show, because it in no way resembes real life or real women as I know it. I found it rather shallow and heartless. Queer as Folk at least had some heartfelt and (mostly) well-acted characters. That's what made it worth watching. And the lesbian baby plot, though tired, was used to further develop the character of Brian, nudging him more towards the responsibility he's always avoided, as well as changing the dynamic of Melanie and Lindsey's relationship. I'm disapointed they are trying such a cliched plot again on the same network! And as far as the white, hollywood beautiful girls only, I know that's the norm for TV, but please, lesbian shows are not the norm for TV. Most people that live in a town with any diversity at all and are not themselves racist have friends and aquantences of different races and sizes I might add. Also, it sounds like they are repeating one of the major weeknesses of Queer as Folk, everyone is either gay, closeted or homophobic. Micheal's mom and my favorite character, the adorable Daphne were the two only supporting characters who were both straight and supportive. And who would have guessed Pitsburg was such a gay Mecca? Say Francisco, yes, Pitsburg no. I can see that a little more in West Hollywood, but I resent the implication gays can only have other gay friends and think it is also harmful that the main character has never had a lesbian thought until she hangs out with a group of lesbians. Um, can we get rid of the old stupid gays try to convert people by zapping them with homo microwaves already? Um, didn't In and Out pretty much cover that territory so that a two year old could figure out that was a stupid idea?



I havens't seen it yet, so the jury is still somewhat out. (Out .... hehehe) I'll rent the first few eps when it comes out on DVD, since I have no cable, only bunny ears.



Wanna see a good and original new show this season? Try Joan of Arcadia.

[unixrules]

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I am sorry, are you saying that women of different colors and shapes and sizes are not lovely? How incredibly offensive.

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Alright-yes. My secret has been discovered.I'm obviously a white,6'0 tall,card-carrying member of the KKK who believes that racial purity in the 20th century...oh,wait...hurriedly gulping down my medication while my nursing attendant nerf-bats me on the head....a-hem.



No-I didn't say that women of different colors and shapes and sizes are not lovely.

What I am saying is that the cast of the "L-word" is obviously some hi-glammed,idealization of LA lesbians-which I'm cool with.



There are cute lesbians.There are ugly lesbians.There are white,black,green,brown lesbians. Everyone has a different interpretation of beauty-what's represented on the "L Word" is one version.There's nothing wrong with this particular interpretation-just as there would be nothing wrong if half the cast were cute green butches.



But that's just MY opinion(while heavily medicated...)



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Embrace the fact that our sexuality entices the straight guys-'cause they can't get what we have.

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Embracing the fact that our sexuality DOES entice the straight guys does not mean catering to it.



It means being confident enough to kiss & cuddle your girlfriend in public without giving a damn if you're arousing half the student male population.



It means being just a tad bit gleeful to know that the hot kiss you gave your girlfriend on the lips did turn on your best guy-friend...but that kiss is reserved only for your girlfriend.



Xita-it seems that every post of mine will continue to offend you and yours.

I don't care much for political correctness or ensuring that every remark of mine has passed some type of "lesbian sensitivity" test. Oy-maybe I don't take enough medication...hehehe...



I think you folks have done a remarkable job with the W/T Fan-fiction portions of the board-the original reason I surfed on over here in the first place.



Peace to you and the kittens,as I will not be visiting this board anymore.

[urnofosiris]

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Alright-yes. My secret has been discovered.I'm obviously a white,6'0 tall,card-carrying member of the KKK who believes that racial purity in the 20th century...oh,wait...hurriedly gulping down my medication while my nursing attendant nerf-bats me on the head....a-hem

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Well good, that is exactly what you were called isn't it, at least you agree on something then.

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No-I didn't say that women of different colors and shapes and sizes are not lovely.

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It's kinda hard to translate this any other way,

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As for the argument that the TV viewing audience isn't seeing an accurate representation of lesbians-gay folk run the whole gamut of shapes,sizes & colours.



What's wrong with seeing the lovely ones?

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but then I am not so good at reading in between lines as you seem to be.

See, I failed the test too.

[gspiggott]

You know it's a sign of how low the standards are that if they don't murder ,rape or have one of the characters lose her sanity the show will be downright progressive.If it avoids those pitfalls may it do well enough in the ratings to embolden other producers.

[sam7777]

gspiggot: Agreed. It isn't PC to want better lesbian portrayals.

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I don't have to embrace such a thing. And we certainly don't have to cater to it. Obviously, I love my lesbian sex as much as anybody but I await anxiously the way the show sex in this show. The portrayal will suggest whether its target is titilation. I would rather see sex in context and with meaning, than gratuitous encounters. If there is too much of the latter than the intent is clearly titilation.

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Xita: Too true. The "L word" I would like to see is love. We don't get to see many committed lesbian couples on TV (that live to tell the tale anyway).



Having read the articles, I'm looking forward to what Kitttens with Showtime have to say about the "L Word". "L Word" will stand on the quality of the stories and the characters and not ratings stunts. I applaud the main stream media (The New York Times) for raising the titillation issue and also hope that the "L word" moves away from this cliche. I also hope they add more diversity to their characters. The idea certainly has potential.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[tyche]

This review is from the SF Chronicle and has some spoilers for the first episode.

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www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ar...4A4V11.DTL

Showtime's 'The L Word' goes boldly where other series have only flirted -- to love and sex among L.A. lesbians



Tim Goodman

The L Word: Drama, 10 p.m. Sunday on Showtime.



All new television shows fight comparison, and some wage other battles fair or unfair depending on what network they're on, who created the show and when it airs.

But Showtime's ambitious and superb new offering, "The L Word," may have more clutter to get through than most before an honest assessment can occur. After all, this is a high-profile "lesbian drama" from a channel that already has a high-profile gay male drama in "Queer As Folk." That means "The L Word" could be seen as Showtime's further exploration of niche dramas (it has an African American series in "Soul Food" and had a Latino drama in "Resurrection Blvd.," which led at the time to assumptions the channel, in keeping with its "No Limits" slogan, was merely offering up programs no one else was doing and therefore making a cottage industry out of being different).

While that may be the case, it takes nothing away from the fact that Showtime has allowed a creator, Ilene Chaiken, to bring to the small screen her vision of an expansive lesbian community in Los Angeles -- a feat she pulls off with only a few fits and starts.

Still, Showtime is promoting the series in a fashion that leaves little doubt that its ad department wants to link "The L Word" stylistically to HBO's "Sex and the City." It's not a very wise move primarily because there's no obvious connection other than one is a hit comedy that's leaving the air while the other is a fledgling drama in need of viewers.

But such is life in television -- sometimes you've got to cut through the crap to even get noticed.

"The L Word" should have little trouble doing that. Lesbians, despite Hollywood's fascination with them, really haven't had much to call their own. "The L Word" is a series that should not only attract that audience but, more important, not repel them with stupidity or gross characterizations. It helps, naturally, that this is Chaiken's baby and she's a lesbian. (If it were a network show, it would have been the brainchild of five straight males looking to capitalize on a trend.)

And then there's the sex-sells angle. "Queer As Folk" enjoyed free- flowing ink in newspapers and magazines when it first came out, not only for its gay content, but for its aggressive view of sexuality that showed no fear of censorship or certainly, prudishness.

So, yes, the rampant nudity and omnipresent lesbian sex scenes should be enough to stir interest all around.

But good for "The L Word." It's hard enough to launch a show, much less on Showtime, where original programming always seems to take a critical and audience-anticipation backseat to HBO. A little hype never hurt.

"The L Word" has its work cut out to keep the viewers who tune in for titillation, and build -- both in gay and straight audience -- an allegiance to a complex set of characters introduced in the 95-minute pilot, then fleshed out in a series of ever-improving one-hour episodes.

What Chaiken has done with "The L Word" is take a variety of hot-button lesbian issues and spread them out over a web of characters who are connected generally to West Hollywood and specifically to a hip cafe there. Imagine a lesbian "Friends," only smarter and better-looking. The friendships are the core of the series, and the neighborhood -- Los Angeles' trendy gay area -- serves as their safe zone.

Although "The L Word" is an ensemble, with all kinds of characters getting fresh, interesting story lines, the main players are Bette (Jennifer Beals) and Tina (Laurel Holloman), a couple together for seven years who are now trying to have a baby. Their next-door neighbor is Tim (Eric Mabius), a straight, open-minded, nice guy who (other than the ridiculous idea of having him drive a "muscle car" is a welcome creation in the realm of gay-straight characterizations. Tim is eagerly awaiting the arrival of his girlfriend Jenny (Mia Kirshner), a writer moving out from the Midwest.

The central themes of "The L Word" are the difficulties these couples have. Bette and Tina battle "lesbian bed death" while Jenny has her world turned upside down when the exotic and stunning Marina (Karina Lombard), who owns the hip neighborhood cafe, gloms onto her.

Into this mix come Kit (Pam Grier), Bette's half-sister, a musician and recovering alcoholic; Shane (Katherine Moennig) the rock-star-like lesbian dynamo who has plowed through most of the women in Los Angeles; Alice (Leisha Hailey), a bisexual journalist, who provides the comedy and Dana (Erin Daniels), a professional tennis player who's still in the closet but likely to blow that cover with her swivel-headed lust at each passing single lesbian, though her track record of actually getting anyone to notice her is woeful.

There are a few others as well, but this core group is well-sketched by Chaiken. We stay interested in their interconnected friendships and dramatic fates once Chaiken smooths over the inevitable bumpy spots of any character- establishing pilot.

It's clear that "The L Word" is a drama meant for everyone. It's not some exclusive lesbian-only venture - something lesbians will discover (and possibly mock) in the first few main scenes as the Big Issues being discussed have a clear Lesbian 101 taint to them. But that's not a major stumbling block. All storytellers want to bring everyone into the tent, and Chaiken is no different.

Discussions of "gaydar" and a comic rundown of how-to-spot-a-lesbian won't enlighten any San Francisco viewers, but the scenes neither flop entirely nor, worse, offend. There is a tonal shift that's a bit stark when Bette and Tina's relationship woes suddenly give way to Dana's unsophisticated flirtation with a sous chef at her tennis club. She doesn't know if she's being hit on so Bette, Tina, Shane and Alice arrive in some kind of "Queer Eye for the Clueless Lesbian" scene.

Another minor misstep is Tim -- and not just his car. The gaydar goes off long before he pulls off his shirt, but his too-good-to-be-true boyfriend routine ends up being sweetly tolerable. It's the fact that an open-minded straight male living in West Hollywood wouldn't know that Marina, working her smoky mojo on Jenny, is a lesbian. He can see it all around him, but not in her? Not quite believable.

These are minor quibbles. There is a forced nature to some of the dialogue as it frantically touches on those Big Issues, but a more natural sense of characters relating to one another begins to emerge at the end of the pilot and improves greatly in subsequent episodes. Chaiken and the writing staff are still working on the humor part. Some of it shines, almost unexpectedly -- as when Bette and Tina can't find a willing sperm donor. Other times it trips upon itself (is a scorned lover stalking Shane supposed to be funny or creepy?).

But the great success of "The L Word" is in getting past all the barriers put in front of it. By the end of the pilot, you want to follow these characters through their lives -- easily the most important aspect of establishing a series. The quality of the writing and acting relegate the sex scenes, hot as they may be, to supporting-role status. (It could easily have been reversed.) Ultimately, "The L Word" seems nothing like an obvious effort by Showtime to capitalize on "Queer As Folk," and more a series that has wonderful stories of its own to tell. And no, despite the ads, it's not the next "Sex and the City."

Maybe Showtime should change the promos to "Come for the Sex, Stay for the Characters." At least that would be truer, and certainly more deserving of the series.

E-mail Tim Goodman at tgoodman@sfchronicle.com

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[xita]

EW gave it a B+



The L Word



Reviewed by Ken Tucker



From its title to its dialogue, Showtime's The L Word is often terribly coy, but that doesn't prevent it from being a stylishly involving, amusing soap opera. The opening credits try to suggest that the L word is everything but what it really is -- ''lesbian'' -- by flashing other L words at us: ''love,'' ''longing,'' ''laughter,'' ''lies,'' ''labyrinth'' (you sense the writers starting to get desperate here), ''limber'' (they're staring at the ceiling, tapping pencils against their teeth, scouring dictionaries), ''libido'' (ooh -- good one!), ''limpid''...''limpid''?



''The L Word'' starts out cribbing from gay-friendly projects ranging from ''Sex and the City'' (lesbian chums headed up by ''Flashdance'''s Jennifer Beals meet over meals to dish) to Armistead Maupin's ''Tales of the City'' (a sweet, smiley straight girl, Jenny, played by Mia Kirshner, arrives in a big city -- in this case, another L, Los Angeles -- meets numerous gay neighbors, and almost immediately gets caught up in a same-sex affair). The central couple is museum director Bette (Beals) and film exec Tina (''Angel'''s Laurel Holloman), who are committed to the point of trying to have a child via sperm donor. Their neighbors are Tim (Eric Mabius), a swimming coach, and his recent-college-grad girlfriend, Jenny, who arrives in L.A. literally wide-eyed at the casual sexual freedom she witnesses.



Kirshner, most vividly the would-be presidential assassin last season in ''24,'' is good at keeping Jenny's startled, intrigued innocence. All the more so when she goes to a nearby coffee shop frequented by local lesbians and falls for the owner, the alluring Euro beauty Marina (Karina Lombard). I know, it sounds contrived, but executive producer Ilene Chaiken understands something significant: what it's like to move to Los Angeles, the land of reinventing yourself, of discovering new possibilities, new realities, new fantasies. ''I'm not used to the way this feels,'' says Jenny, those wide eyes filling with tears, and her unbridled emotions brimming over as well.



''The L Word'' has a few problems, such as cutesy chatter (''Lesbians think friendship is another word for foreplay''), generalities trying to pass as randy wisdom (''Any time you get a group of gay girls together, you are guaranteed that someone has slept with someone else who slept with someone else''), and humor of the ain't-L.A.-trendy-and-wacky variety, as when the bi journalist Alice (Leisha Hailey) goes ''to get my vagina rejuvenated'' for a magazine assignment.



At the same time, there are moments of straight-from-the-heart directness. After a few sapphic smooches, Jenny, who still has strong feelings for Tim, says to Marina with touching helplessness, ''I can't be around you anymore. It's confusing to me, and it makes me feel insane.'' Who among us hasn't felt that at one time or another? Of course, this being cable TV and Showtime, home of the pornomentary series ''Family Business,'' there's a certain amount of what a lot of network sitcoms currently use as a punchline phrase: ''hot girl-on-girl action!'' Yet ''L'' isn't as shrilly lecherous as Showtime's other gay-themed drama, the trying-too-hard-to-stay-hard ''Queer as Folk.''



Unless you count her screenplay work on the Pam Anderson action film ''Barb Wire'' as a vehicle for encoded lesbian empowerment, Chaiken is doing something new in offering as wide a variety of gay women as her assiduously upscale setting will allow. Still, I could take a lot less of the lez most of the other characters seem mesmerized by -- Shane (Katherine Moennig), the love-'em-and-leave-'em tough hairstylist (her own 'do is a frowsy mop). She strikes me as little more than a Runaways-era Joan Jett, speaking in gruff clichés: ''I don't do relationships.'' But the fact that I'm caught up in these women's various obsessions is proof that ''The L Word'' is effective as a soap opera and, occasionally, a drama. Beals as Bette is terrific in particular, especially in the fifth episode, when she has to deal with a grave Ossie Davis as her visiting father. She's crushed when this dignified man she adores does not approve of the possibility of a grandchild issuing from a union for which he can barely muster tolerance.



By the way, be sure to catch the dumbest end-credit disclaimer I've ever seen: ''The character of Alice Pieszecki is not intended to portray or represent any particular individual at LA Weekly.'' Alrighty, then -- I guess we know Alice wasn't modeled on someone who works at a certain Los Angeles alternative newspaper. Good work, Showtime lawyers!

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"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[molsongrrrl]

A review from today's tvguide online - with a small mention of willow and tara ...





Girls' Club

The L Word

(10 pm/ET, SHO)



Even in these enlightened times, it's difficult to find positive lesbian characters on television. Though gays and lesbians have been kicking down closet doors left and right, it's the guys who are getting all the screen time. Witness Will and Jack on Will & Grace and the entire cast of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. And even when a lesbian relationship is dramatized, it's inevitably cut short. Did Buffy the Vampire Slayer really have to kill off Tara shortly after she and Willow hooked up?



Hoping to change all that is The L Word, Showtime's female version of their groundbreaking Queer as Folk. Like Folk, the show revolves around trendy, attractive gay characters, who are comfortable with their sexuality and looking for love in the big city. Set in Los Angeles, the series is well-written, well-acted and earnest in its desire to dispel lesbian stereotypes by focusing on appealing, career-oriented women. There's committed power couple Bette (Jennifer Beals) and Tina (Laurel Holloman), who are hoping to have a baby after they find a suitable sperm donor; daffy bisexual Alice (Leisha Hailey); closeted tennis star Dana (Erin Daniels); suave ladies' woman Shane (Katherine Moennig); and Bette's half-sister, Kit (Pam Grier), a recovering alcoholic. The women meet regularly at a cafe owned by the sensual Marina (Karina Lombard), a European bombshell who makes everyone quake in their seats.



In tonight's pilot, sensitive and straight Jenny (Mia Kirshner), a gifted writer, moves to Los Angeles to live with her sweet but clueless boyfriend Tim (Eric Mabius). They live next door to Bette and Tina, and the women try to help Jenny settle in by inviting the couple to a party. But when Jenny and Marina's eyes meet, the writer falls madly in lust. Jenny's confusion and repressed desire drives much of the pilot, and rarely has an unspoken attraction been conveyed so effectively. Lombard and Kirshner's performances are subtle, evocative and altogether unforgettable.



The other major story line involves Bette and Tina's frustrating and often hilarious search for a sperm donor. Beals and Holloman make a great couple. Their petty arguments — and sexy attempts to make up — show partners trying to make a long-term relationship work. Also effective is Grier, who tries to make amends with Beals, her biracial baby sister.



In fact, the series has so many good things about it, it seems petty to quibble. But there are some plot points that don't ring true. Dana's attempts to remain in the closet to impress sponsors seems dated, given that some advertisers actively court the gay community today. Marina's character veers dangerously close to the "predatory lesbian" stereotype, which can be found in bad pulp fiction of the 1950s. It's also frustrating that the cast is not as ethnically diverse as it could be. (This is Los Angeles after all!) And, finally, the Tim character needs a good swat in the head for not noticing that Jenny wanders over to Marina's cafe for far too many lattes.



Still, The L Word is provocative, addictive, intelligent and involving. What's more, it's infinitely sexier than those silly late-night videos in which comely girls go wild on the beach. — Donica O'Bradovich

"Never separate the lives you live from the words you speak"

[WebWarlock]

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And even when a lesbian relationship is dramatized, it's inevitably cut short. Did Buffy the Vampire Slayer really have to kill off Tara shortly after she and Willow hooked up?

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Whoa. Thank you TV Guide. Two years later and it still gets press.



Here is the link, www.tvguide.com/tv/review/, good only for today I'd think.



Warlock

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Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

"'A bunch of has-beens' how is that different from any other show on the WB?" - Bobcat Goldthwait, on "The Sureal Life"

Edited by: WebWarlock at: 1/18/04 8:34 am

[xita]

Thanks Tim, it is good to read that.



I would like to say that I don't think things are so good for gay men. It's like they are there for amusement and jokes, they are not there to love and be people of strength, in the shows they mention anyway.

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"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[maudmac]

My two cents...



I guess I'll give it a chance to change my initial impression, which is that I seriously can't tell the difference between this show and QaF and I don't mean that as a compliment.



It amazingly managed to be boring even in the middle of about a thousand sex scenes.

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go         donut           go

[Ben Varkentine]

ETA:

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I am sorry, are you saying that women of different colors and shapes and sizes are not lovely? How incredibly offensive.

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Something just hit me: Yeah. Because Alyson Hannigan and Amber Benson are so differently colored, abnormally shaped and sized. Certainly we should find white, shapely lesbians offensive around here.



Go look for consistency.



As for The L Word, since a couple of reviews have said that future episodes are better than the pilot, I'm gonna give it another chance or two as well. I don't watch QaF so I can't compare, but I'd call this shaky but not without promise. I liked much of the acting and a little less of the writing, but I think they need to prune down the characters a bit if they expect me to keep track (this may change if future episodes better develop the others.)



"a thousand sex scenes" is of course an exaggeration, and for what it's worth I didn't find them boring, or much else, except maybe Jennifer Beals' let's-go-talk-and-hug scene with Pam Grier.

Ben



"Never be discouraged from being an activist because people tell you that you'll not succeed. You have already succeeded if you're out there representing truth or justice or compassion or fairness or love."

-- Doris 'Granny D' Haddock

Edited by: Ben Varkentine at: 1/19/04 1:23 am

[xita]

Actually, let's remember that for TV Amber Benson was considered fat by many, sadly so. So yeah go look for consistency. Besides I don't think anyone around here failed to notice the lack of diversity on that show. And I was certainly not suggesting that pretty white girls were offensive. I was offended by the notion that they were the only lovely ones. I think all women are lovely



On to the L word. Ok, I didn't hate it. I didn't like it either. It could get better but I don't think they did a good job so far with any of the characters. I am not good with the names and I am not that interested to look it up so bare with me.



Shane, the outfits and the hair have to go. I found that girl attractive before but those clothes are not flattering to her body and it was very distracting because she's supposed to be this stud.



I could get into this if I start finding the "love." It is clearly a soap so I have to buy into the romance stuff and so far... The baby couple story could have been interesting if they dealt with the issues, which in future shows, I suppose they could. I was kind of thrown when what's her name was having doubts about a mixed baby, I didn't realize this was 1954. Even more puzzling is her gf just kind of saying, oh well, I love her. They could be interesting to me but all they did was portray lesbian bed death to a T.



The triangle is incredibly boring. That girl the married one looks like she's 12 and I am having a hard time finding anything she does sexy. The woman with the accent, now she's hot but I was not finding this encounter romantic or sexy.



I could get into the tennis player's story, she seems like a decent, caring person. She's just in the closet.



Nipple and Pussy confidence? ok...

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"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[technopagan78]

My response is not extreme in either way. I could see some potential, but ensemble cast dramas often strike me as initially confusing. Even an ensemble cast needs a center (Stabler/Benson in L&O SVU), and while that center may move in soap operas (from Blake Carrington to Alexis Carrington in Dynasty, for example), there is a center nonetheless. Here there is no center.



The "duck out of water story of the young writer" (girl comes to L.A. gets an eyeful and becomes changed nearly over night) was less interesting to me than the "couple on the rocks" (let's cure our relationship problems with a baby, oh yeah, that's gonna work), but that's just me. I liked the idea of the writer adverse to school and wanting to become part of a community of writers, but I felt that the seduction story made the idea seem more ploy than substance. In my experience, the triangle story line can only play so many notes, while the messed up couple story has wider potential.



(Another thought about the writer/cafe owner romance, it could also be read as the ultimate alt Xena fan fic, a 21st century fandango set in LA with the cafe owner as Xena, the writer as the annoying little blonde bard, and Tim? as Perdicus. Now, all that needs to happen is for Callisto to show up and put a blade through Tim, and we can be rid of the awful three way conflict.)



Xita's right, the Bette character's "oh, but I love her" response to her partner's reaction to an African-American sperm donor seemed farfetched. (Actually, the one character response that seemed reasonable was the man's to what he perceived as the partner's distress.) On the other hand, the partners refound their sexual connection after they'd been hit on by others (the gym trainer and the art fan), that's either poor writing or a more telling aspect to their relationship, combine it with the discomfort with the therapist and the too minor blow up over the sperm, and it would seem that this relationship cannot be saved.



The bisexual journalist struck me as a send-up of sorts of L.A. feature journalism (actually the character reminded me very much of a writer who used to work for LA mag and who I believe has mentioned the idea of top ten lists in every conversation we've ever had, scary). The least interesting aspect of the show was the use of lesbian subculture speak both real and imagined, bed death, nipple attitude, the urge to merge, etc. Pardon the term, but, whatever.



Shane (Shawn?) too closely resembles one of my former and more annoying students, so I need to refrain from commenting until I can see her for who she is ...



All in all, the show struck me most as a show about the people who are making the show. The look, the concerns, the attitudes are perhaps too specific to translate to a general audience. When it comes to LA's westside, insular is not necessarily a good thing. One thing, someone needs to put her foot down about is the uniform failure to put on safety belts while driving in L.A. I could see why the Pam Grier character would not, but everyone else, please. Also, is Bette the only person in the show with a cell phone glued to her ear, again, please. Making the over use of the cell phone a major character flaw is so 1990s.



Probably like a lot of other people, I did spend some time cross-checking the L Word to Queer as Folks, comparing characters, etc, but I was able to do the same comparing it to other evening soap operas. It's a formula of sorts, as close to Knott's Landing as it is to QAF. Not exactly revolutionary, but hey, it's Showtime, lol.

Edited by: technopagan78 at: 1/19/04 10:25 pm

[Gatito Grande]

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The bisexual journalist struck me as a send-up of sorts of L.A. feature journalism (actually the character reminded me very much of a writer who used to work for LA mag and who I believe has mentioned the idea of top ten lists in every conversation we've ever had, scary).

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Uh, technopagan, did you catch this from the Entertainment Weekly review?

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By the way, be sure to catch the dumbest end-credit disclaimer I've ever seen: ''The character of Alice Pieszecki is not intended to portray or represent any particular individual at LA Weekly.'' Alrighty, then -- I guess we know Alice wasn't modeled on someone who works at a certain Los Angeles alternative newspaper. Good work, Showtime lawyers!

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GG So you can now say you know an "officially NOT portrayed in 'The L Word' character!" Out

[technopagan78]

LOL, I did not, nor will I mention the name of the person I have in mind, who also sometimes answers her phone, "tell me the 411." (A new ground for justifiable homicide, I think.) However she is ex-Mag, not ex-Weekly (or maybe she's both, not really sure). In any event, I missed the disclaimers, end credits, and until you gave up the name Alice, the character's name.

[Big Dummy]

My partner and I had a party and invited everyone we knew for what I had hoped would be the beginning of a tv tradition.



We laughed.



And laughed. It was MST3K in our living room. I think the show might be watchable in the near future purely for the camp value. The dialogue in some places was so...I don't know. It reminded me of old people trying to write in teen vernacular. The writers tried so hard to make these people sound edgy and hip, with the witty one-liners and scathing comebacks and the quips that were so of the now. Not.



This was certainly not the show to watch for drama. The truest moments were the ones in which Mia Kirschner's character is struggling with her sexuality (alone, not with Marina), and the scene where Pam Grier's and Jennifer Beal's characters are on the verge of having a serious conversation before it turns into a nice (sarcasm) way to slip in the actual "l" word.



And a quick example of how it is entirely impossible to please everyone when you do a tv show (and why I don't fault the creators/writers for not trying to): a big debate/issue has been about the overall hotness of this cast. For me, only 2 characters got a reading on the hotness meter. One person's idea of hot is another's "eh", and vice versa. So no matter what kind of casting they might have done for this, someone (somewhere) would be disappointed or feel under- or mis-represented.



I plan to watch the next few eps, if only to see if the writing actually goes somewhere now that they've gotten the awkward exposition out of the way.

[Jennpurr]

Well, all I have to say is that...



I loved it. I really did. I will continue to watch and tape. Yes, I said tape cause I'm taping it...



You know, the best part of the ep to me, was when Marina pushed Jenny up against the bathroom wall and they started kissing. That was sexy!



There were other parts I liked as well, starting off with Laurel Holloman (Tina). I loved her as Randi in, "The Incredibly True Adventures of Two Girls In Love." Looking forward to seeing more of her.



The only thing that bothered me was the potential threesome between Bette, Tina and that guy. I cringed, I'll admit it. It made me very angry for some reason. Maybe because I don't believe in threesomes... I don't know. It didn't sit well with me.



That's about it really. I hope no one will want to slap me for asking this, but is Jennifer Beals really biracial? I thought she was and still do... just want to be sure. She's so beautiful.



OH... that was another thing that bothered me. The whole Tina not being sure if she wanted to have a half african american baby. Come on... it shouldn't matter. Not to mention the fact that I'm sure the baby would be gorgeous. Yes, I love biracial babies. I think their precious. So beautiful.



Hee... I at that doctor telling Bette and Tina that they would have better chances if Tina was aroused! *snort*



Jen

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Edited by: Jennpurr at: 1/19/04 8:54 pm