Wonderfalls

[BytrSuite]

lol, well, that was quick. damn.

________
Leela: I was just curious because of the armed guards.
Grunka Lunkas: (singing) Grunka Lunka dunkity darmed guards -
Bender: (shouting) Shut the hell up!

[tyche]

Here's the link to the original thread on the Tim Minear official site:

www.timminear.net/archives/press/000064.html

It's mainly amusing for the comments below Tim Minear's post...

Did I ask you to dress like a Republican? - Grace, Joan of Arcadia

[Hemiola]

If this is true, in the immortal words of Bart Simpson, it both blows and sucks!



For cryin' out loud, they didn't even give the thing a chance!



So let's see if I understand this: they're getting rid of "Wonderfalls" but keeping "Oliver Beene"?

Yeah, that makes sense.

[theatremouse]

Quote:

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So let's see if I understand this: they're getting rid of "Wonderfalls" but keeping "Oliver Beene"? Yeah, that makes sense.

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hemiola: best point EVER.

Edited by: theatremouse at: 4/4/04 10:03 am

[WebWarlock]

Even I can argue that they didn't really give it a chance.



But I won't be losing any sleep over it.



Warlock

-----

Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

"I am the god of hellfire! And I bring you Fire!" - Arthur Brown, "Fire" The Crazy World of Arthur Brown

[TaraBaby77]

I tell ya... I really started to get into this show... even to the point of downloading them and writing feedbacks about them... but... NOOO, they don't let the tv viewers get a chance to let the show make an impression on us. Anyhoo, I think it would be cool if they did like a Limited Time Only release of the unshown episodes... =)

Aaron

'TaraBaby77'

[BBOvenGuy]

Believe it or not, Tim Minear had another show that was cancelled even more quickly - it was called Strange World. The SciFi Channel eventually ran all thirteen episodes after FOX ran only two. Maybe that's what will happen to Wonderfalls. Or maybe it'll go to DVD and Tim can convince Universal to do a full-length feature...

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

[seurat]

Hmm, yes, blows AND sucks pretty well sums it up for me too.



I'm pretty sure we'll end up seeing all 13 ep's here in Canada, since Space has a habit of picking these things up and running them a few times. Probably not for a few months though.



I know a lot of kittens disliked this show, and plenty of non-kittens too. But being as my primetime network tv watching was already down to 7 or 8 eight hours a week, I'll miss this show. I have 200 channels, and it's sad how many nights I end up watching a rerun of Dark Angel or something. Fox really mishandled Wonderfalls (Another in a long series of idiotic moves, see Dark Angel for example.)

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[gspiggott]

I'm not a fan of Tim Minear but I enjoyed the last episode and thought the show had potential.Fox should have given this one more of a chance.

[sam7777]

Given Fox's record, it's prolly not worthwhile getting too attached to any of their shows. I was sorry to see good shows like "Brimstone", "Dark Angel" and "John Doe" cancelled but it was not a surprise. Fox is chasing after the ever elusive and fickle boy numbers (male 18-34) and competing with the big three networks. They simply won't wait if a show isn't getting any demo numbers. Tru prolly won't last the season but has been getting some decent demo numbers and "Joan Of Arcadia" has shown that a show with a very similar theme can make it in the Friday "death" slot. I think that producers like Minear and Fuller who are interested in niche concepts with cult audiences should look to the smaller netlets if they want a network that will give the show more time. Fox ain't it.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 4/5/04 10:18 am

[tyche]

Apparently Caroline Dhavernas is going to be on the Late Late Show tonight.

Also, this was posted on An Angel's Soul Spoiler Board:

Quote:

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Wonderfalls:

www.voy.com/14810/16727.html

1. here's the link to a petition for the the whole 13 eps of wonderfalls to be put on dvd....



www.petitiononline.com/go...ition.html



2. here's a post from 23skidoo at a Trek board...interesting and fabulous. candadians...let your fingers do the talkin'...or...ya know...fingers and then your mouths i guess...cuz...you need to talk into the phone...and...ok...here's 23skidoo's post...



"I just got off the phone with my local Global TV affiliate. While the network is tied to the Fox broadcast of Wonderfalls -- which means they won't be able to continue running the show now that Fox has cancelled it, the programming person tells me that Global execs are possibly considering buying the series, at the very least to complete its run.



Apparently, while the show tanked in the US (ratings-wise), it was considered a break out hit here in Canada.



If you are in Canada, and you're a Wonderfalls fan, I urge you to call your local Global affiliate ASAP and express your support of the show. It won't do our American friends much good, sadly, but at least it might impact whether we're able to see the rest of the series up here. There is also always a remote chance that production could continue in Canada, a la Due South, though I couldn't get the Global person to say whether that's on the table or not (she probably wouldn't know anyway).



Cheers!



You can find contact numbers for Global stations at http://www.canada.com and look under the TV section. Calgary's number for instance is 403-235-7777."

---

What kind of novels do you write: fiction or nonfiction? - US immigration officer to Ian McEwan

[TaraBaby77]

Thanks tyche for posting that petition. Most greatly appreciated!!! =)

Aaron

'TaraBaby77'

[seurat]

According to the Kilborn show web site, Caroline is no longer on the guest list for tonight. Too bad, I would have enjoyed hearing what she had to say about the quick cancellation.



Thanks for the info about the Global tv stations Tyche, that was nice of you. I would agree that there isn't any chance of them continuing to shoot the show, but they might indeed make a deal to buy the remaining ep's and run them. And if they don't, Space probably will.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[tyche]

It's being reported that Tim Minear (and presumably Bryan Fuller too) are shopping the show to UPN and the WB. Here's the post on the Angel's Soul Spoiler Board with the details, though I wasn't able to find anything on the Orange County Register site...

What kind of novels do you write: fiction or nonfiction? - US immigration officer to Ian McEwan

[Tempest Duer]

Excuse me while I let my fingers do the talking... will be putting up a pic soon...

Saying that up is down will not make up, down.



~Gene Burns

[TaraLivesOn]

Two unaired episodes have shown up on ebay on a promo DVD sent to the press!

[tyche]

You know, people gping on as if Wonderfalls got cancelled means that apocalypse is imminent and nothing good will be on TV ever, ever again is getting really frickin' tiresome.

Quote:

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’Wonderfalls’ takes the fall in tough TV season

From Sfgate.com - By Lynn Elber

The voice mail message is succinct: "You’ve reached what used to be the `Century City’ production office. We are closed."

That’s the epitaph a canceled series gets, one also due Fox’s fanciful drama "Wonderfalls." Like CBS’ "Century City," "Wonderfalls" aired only a handful of times before it was axed last week.

Some observers say the casualty toll indicate a weak field of midseason shows, including such struggling efforts as ABC’s "Stephen King’s Kingdom Hospital" and CBS’ "The Stones."

Todd Holland, a creator and executive producer of "Wonderfalls," thinks the analysis misses the point. What’s happening, he says, reflects a sea change in entertainment in general -- and not for the better.

Studios write off movies that don’t "open big," with an impressive debut tally, just as networks hastily dump shows that don’t make an immediate and serious dent in the Nielsen ratings, Holland said.

"You really have a hard time commanding a network’s patience and attention, the same way you do a movie studio’s patience and attention," Holland said.

He recalled the fate of "Krippendorf’s Tribe," the 1998 film he directed and which starred Richard Dreyfuss.

"I got a call Friday night, opening night at 7 o’clock, and the president of Touchstone told me, ’Sorry, we just couldn’t open the picture,"’ Holland said.

That meant marketing quickly was abandoned, along with any chance for the film to build an audience. In TV terms, "Wonderfalls" got roughly the same bum’s rush.

To start with, the series required careful handling. A comic drama about a discontented young woman (Caroline Dhavernas) who lives near Niagara Falls, works in a souvenir shop and starts hearing directives from tacky animal figurines, it obviously wasn’t a cookie-cutter entry.

(Holland says he and co-creator Bryan Fuller came up with the idea at the same time "Joan of Arcadia" was created, but the hit CBS series about a teenager who hears from God made it to TV first.)

"Wonderfalls" also needed the right time slot to attract the young demographic that Fox courts and for whom the show seemed designed. And, finally, it needed breathing room to establish itself.

In the current fashion of network TV, it got none of the above.

The series was stranded at 9 p.m. EST Friday, when a chunk of the typically elusive young audience tends to be out, with an excursion to Thursday -- against NBC’s powerhouse reality series "The Apprentice."

(Fox, which declined to comment, gets some credit for teaming "Wonderfalls" with a spiritual partner on Thursday: It followed "Tru Calling," about a young woman who hears calls for help from the dead.)

Expansive marketing was lacking. "There is a correlation between advertising and promotional spending and return," observed Holland.

Two Fox shows that received elaborate brass-band welcomes, "Malcolm in the Middle" (said to be the beneficiary of a $6 million launch in 2000) and newcomer "The O.C.," are thriving.

"Everyone knows that hits are made, that you nurture a show ... you give it a great time slot and a lot of promotion, and then the show has to earn its audience, to keep it," said Holland, whose extensive credits include "Malcolm in the Middle" and "The Larry Sanders Show."

Maybe "Wonderfalls" eventually could have drawn viewers by virtue of what Holland calls its "wicked bad-boy comedy, but with heart," which he saw as very Fox-friendly in the spirit of "The Simpsons."

Four episodes, however, and it was over. Holland’s pleas for one more airing were rebuffed by Fox.

Patience is not a virtue these days, particularly when networks can get easy, immediate ratings gratification from reality shows.

The rapid turnover in scripted series makes their failure a self-fulfilling prophecy, Holland suggested. Network reluctance to give shows time to grow makes viewers skittish about committing to shows that are unlikely to last.

Networks could find themselves stocking up on reality fare but also acquiring a sameness that erases their identities, Holland said. Will viewers who think of NBC as the comedy destination for "Friends" link the network as closely to "The Apprentice"?

Ultimately, the loss could be even bigger, Holland said.

"I feel like the sort of wonder you can create from small worlds of fiction is totally in danger of extinction because people -- the audience or the networks -- don’t have the patience to nurture that kind of journey," Holland said.

"Anything you don’t nurture and feed, withers. Our imaginations, our dreaming spirits, are in danger of giving up."

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What kind of novels do you write: fiction or nonfiction? - US immigration officer to Ian McEwan

[Culzean]

Todd Holland does make one good point - audiences are reluctant to get involved in a new program, only to have it canceled after a few episodes.



It's turning into a vicious cycle. The networks churn out a bunch of new programs, we don't turn them on for fear they'll just get canceled, the ratings are low, then the networks cancel the shows. If that isn't a self fulfilling prophecy, I don't know what is.



It's hard to believe that it costs less money to continuously create and start up new productions than to leave a program on for at least half a season and promote it.



I'm a lot more inclined to check out a new mini-series on HBO or Showtime than a new network program. At least I know the mini-series will be on for the whole 13 weeks.

[sam7777]

Tyche: Agreed. The cancellation of "Wonderfalls" does not mean the death of quality TV. The cancellation of "Karen Sisco" and "Brotherhood of Poland" are more to be lamented IMHO.



A quirky show with a young woman listening to voices can do well with a young audience on Friday: "Joan of Arcadia". Friday is not a death slot if the show is good and original. "X-Files" was launched on Friday. Truth is that Fox needs shows on Thursdays and Fridays to fill out it's schedule. They can get decent ratings the rest of the week using a combination of reality shows and scripted shows ("Simpsons", "24", "That 70's Show"). Their worst rated nights season after season are Thursdays and Fridays. "Wonderfalls" average audience was about 2.9 million which is well below the other shows that failed in the Friday time slot (FOX FRIDAY 2002-2003 RATINGS GRAPH). Producers of new scripted shows for Fox will invariably get a Thursday or Friday time slot. Fox is looking for a show that performs well in the 18-49 demos and gets a 6-7million audience from the start and doesn't really have the luxury to nurse shows that get half that. Once Fox selected "Tru Calling" for it's Fall 2003 schedule, Fox should have stopped developing the very similar "Wonderfalls". TV may have room for multiple CSI and L&O shows but genre shows need to be original to get attention. "X-Files" made it big on Fridays because there was nothing else like it on TV at that time.



Producers with shows that have a limited audience need to look at the smaller networks like UPN or the WB from the outset that can accomodate shows with small audiences of 3-4 million (which is more than Wonderfalls got) if they can get in the top 3 in some of the 18-49 demos.



ETA: Fox is looking for 10million viewers for a successful show: TV gorging habit (requires sign up):

Quote:

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"In order to air a successful TV show, you need 10 million people to watch," 20th Century Fox home entertainment marketing vice president Peter Staddon told Video Business. "On DVD, you don't need anything like that for a release to be successful."

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_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 4/12/04 4:51 pm

[AmbeRocks]

as i've said somewhere else on the board, the complete first season will be air here, i think it's in fall. the main actress is from here, so that's pretty much the reason behind it i guess..!

There is such a variety of well-invented things that the earth is like the breasts of a woman: useful as well as pleasing - Nietzsche

[tyche]

Here's the announcement about Wonderfalls airing in Canada, in somewhat amusing English:

Quote:

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From Telequebec.qc.ca

Tv quebec confirms the broadcasting of Wonderfalls Season 2004-2005

What the viewers reassure themselves, they will be able to see the next year, to Tv Quebec, the 13 episodes of the series Wonderfalls, putting in star the comédienne Caroline Dhavernas.

Broadcasted on the American chain Fox, the series was withdrawn schedule after only four episodes. Motive: quotations of listens insufficient, despite an average of three millions of viewers.

Nevertheless, the critics continue to be enthusiasts. One praises humor and the originality of the series as well as the talent and the presence to the screen of Caroline Dhavernas, personage star of the series.

Except major unforeseen, Tv Quebec will broadcast, as early as the next fall, the French version of Wonderfalls.

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What kind of novels do you write: fiction or nonfiction? - US immigration officer to Ian McEwan

[seurat]

Well, all this means is that the remaining ep's will be shown provincially in Quebec and dubbed in french. It is also possible that they will be available in most of the rest of the country on french language outlets, in french. Which doesn't help me much, since my french is pretty bad. However, there has still been no word yet on Global picking up the remaining ep's for broadcast in english. Not a high priority at this point of course, so they will probably wait a while.



I'm not going to get into the death of quality tv argument now, more because it's another crappy, rainy day here and I have a cold than for any other reason. Some other time, maybe.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[kbk3022]

I don't think we can argue what is or isn't quality TV. Well, I suppose we could but I don't think it would change anyone's mind. It's all a matter of personal opinion. And I think we all can agree that ratings do not equal "quality" programming. Just take a look at the top of the TV ratings. You have American Idol, Survivor, and the Apprentice in the top 10.



Anyway, I liked this show. It's one of the few that I actually tuned in regularly to watch. One of the others being Joan of Arcadia. I too tried to compare these two TV shows, however, after the initial similarities, they are completely different shows. Both of which I enjoy for totally different reasons. Wonderfalls was an excellent comedic treasure. I totally died laughing in some of the scenes. Not many shows are able to do that, for I am a hard, cold-hearted person.



I suppose what I find most interesting about this thread is not the usual "we enjoy this show let's talk about it" thread but a "let's cheer on its cancellation" thread. We all have our own opinions, sure, but I think if I didn't like a show I wouldn't go into its thread to say I hope it got cancelled. Perhaps I'd state my reasons for my dislike but I wouldn't feel the need to continuously visit a thread about something I so disliked.



Though, I suppose some people are still stuck in the cheering on of show's deaths.

[urnofosiris]

Some people seem to like this show and some don't. Big deal, this is hardly the only thread where opinions about a show or a movie are the exact opposite of each other, just look at the L word thread. This isn't the first time and it won't be the last. Reading a thread about a show or a topic you like has never been a guarantuee that everyone will agree. I seem to be one of the few people posting in the Gilmore Girls thread that actually likes season 4. Should people want to cheer that show's cancellation they can do just that, I may disagree and say so but I won't look down my nose at them. The only TV characters that get preferential treatment here are Willow and Tara, obviously. If someone hates them they have to look for another board to share those sentiments. Just like I would not go to a Wonderfalls board to cheer it's demise. As it is, I notice some people don't care much about it being cancelled, but I am missing the overt cheering, and then are also at least as many people here who are upset over it's cancellation. This thread seems pretty balanced opinion wise.



Who knows, I might have liked this show and have been bummed. I will probably never know now. Whatever it's qualities or lack thereof are, 4 episodes seems too short a time to decide whether a show has life in it. Maybe for the individual viewer it is enough time, but a TV network might give a show a bit longer to either find it's way to the audience or crash and burn. I can't believe that the constant threat of early cancellation will work wonders on the creative efforts of the people making a show. It could work counter productive on the audience as well, I've seen a few shows that got cancelled midway through a storyline. If I had known that in advance I never would have started watching in the first place. Right now I feel like sitting back and waiting to make sure a show will actually stay on the air for more than 5 episodes or so before I start watching.

Edited by: DrG at: 4/14/04 1:49 am

[sam7777]

We can all agree that TV is more of a business than a strictly creative endeavor. Ratings have little to do with quality but they do have alot to do with a shows survival and can help explain a networks decision to cancel a show. By the same token, critical praise and good reviews alone cannot keep a show on the air if it's doesn't get the ratings the network wants and/or doesn't fit in with the networks schedule. Fox's most critically acclaimed series this season "Arrested Development" is on the bubble and is not expected to be renewed. I lament the loss of good shows like "Brimstone" and "John Doe" to Fox's axe. Frankly, I watch very few shows on Fox for that reason and check the ratings before I committ to their programming to avoid dissappointment. The last show that I watched consistently on Fox was "X-Files" (starting 4th season) when it was already established on the network. Fox is chasing after the 18-24 demos and isn't interested in programming that doesn't get them those ratings. If producers are looking for a network to nuture their shows and let them build up an audience, Fox ain't it.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 4/14/04 3:16 pm

[kbk3022]

Yes, some liked this show and some didn't. I believe I said that in my first post. I don't really have a problem with that. Since I don't watch the Gilmore Girls I don't visit that thread but I'm sure there is a difference between this thread and that one. Most of the people who are writing they don't like the season are regular viewers of the show, not people who haven't even seen it or who have just seen 10 minutes of one episode. Granted, this show really didn't get enough episodes to have such a discussion.



I suppose what I find surprising, as I said in my first post, are people who were hoping this show got cancelled before it even really got started. Especially, since this show had a lesbian in it. A lesbian who, at least in the first four episodes, was not evil, dead, a murderer, or one with no love life. Some go around talking about how we need more representation on TV (I think we all can agree). But then they hope that a show like this, with a lesbian in it, will be cancelled. Again I say I'm surprised.

[sam7777]

Quote:

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Right now I feel like sitting back and waiting to make sure a show will actually stay on the air for more than 5 episodes or so before I start watching.

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DrG: Agreed. Fox especially doesn't give shows a chance. As I said before because it has a lesbian character, I'd give it a chance in syndication if it lasted that long. I've learned not to get too attached to shows on Fox.



Personally, my initial reaction about not wanting the show to succeed came from it's creators Fuller and Minnear whose previous work I didn't much like. I also want Joss Wedon's next show to be cancelled cuz I don't like his work. Go figure. However, when I learned that there was a lesbian character, I did check out the second ep of Wonderfalls even though I initially said I wouldn't watch. I didn't care for their brand of humor and the characters so it didn't do much for me. It didn't change my mind about the show. The reviews I posted refected what I thought of the show. I certainly didn't like it as much as "Brimstone" or "John Doe", two shows that also died on Fox which is why I want Fox to keep trying in the time slot. What I've learned from Willow and Tara is that even when a lesbian starts off not being evil, dead or a murderer for 2.5 seasons, they can still end up that way. I simply don't trust that Minnear or Fuller won't do the cliches.



For me anyway, it's not simply a matter of supporting every lesbian portrayal out there but quality portrayals that avoid the cliches. I have had my trust betrayed too many times in the past by Whedon/Mutant Enemy and Tapert to name two. For me to committ to a portrayal these days, I have to trust the show's creators and I didn't. OTOH I plan to watch Nikki and Nora on the UPN, the show about two lesbian detectives if it makes it to air. That show has two lead gay characters and that makes it pretty sure they won't be killed or turn evil like a secondary gay characters too often do. If I think the show is good, I'll keep watching. If I don't, I'll stop watching. I'm not going to watch a show I don't like just because it has a lesbian character though having a gay character makes it more likely I'll sample the show as I have.



The goal is to get more lesbian representation on TV but I want more good ones that end happily (however angsty the path). The gay magazines praise every gay portrayal out there but I can't do that anymore. I need to see more than just a lesbian on a TV show that is not evil, dead or a murderer. I need to see one that stays that way as they didn't on BTVS, ER or AMC to name 3. That's always been my position. This is getting OT so I'll stop but that's my 2 cents.



ETA: Bryan Fuller has moved on: Wonderfalls Creator Signs Deal

Quote:

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Bryan Fuller, co-creator and executive producer of Fox's critically praised though canceled series Wonderfalls, has signed a two-year overall deal with series co-producer 20th Century Fox TV, according to The Hollywood Reporter. The pact, said to be in the seven-figure range and to include an option for a third year, calls for Fuller to focus primarily on developing new shows for the studio while also possibly working on an existing 20th TV series, the trade paper reported.



"Bryan has an incredibly fresh and unique voice for television," 20th TV president Dana Walden told the trade paper. "He is one of the people we've identified over the past couple of years who sort of defines what this studio is trying to do in terms of distinctive and groundbreaking television."



The deal comes on the heels of the Fox network's quick cancellation of 20th TV/Regency TV's quirky fantasy show Wonderfalls, which launched to good reviews but was pulled off the air after four low-rated airings, the trade paper reported.

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_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 4/15/04 12:09 pm

[tyche]

Well, as just about everyone on this board knows, I'm not gay. But I really didn't find the lesbian sister a very interesting character (ooh, a Republican lawyer! How daring, unprecedented and original!), especially as she was virtually a clone of the lawyer sister in 'Tru Calling'. None of the characters on 'Wonderfalls' really grabbed me, because they were all (the sister included) written in such a shallow way. I don't mind watching shows with leading characters who aren't particularly likeable or interesting (hello, Enterprise!), so long as the shows in question are entertaining. With 'Wonderfalls', it was a double whammy - the characters were not very interesting, and the show did not entertain me. (For me, it didn't work as either a comedy or a drama. I did not find it funny, and I didn't think that there was any real dramatic conflict or depth in either the show or its characters.) So that's why I gave up after two episodes.

Also, frankly, I do not trust most of the former Mutant Enemy staff with gay or lesbian characters. Let's face it, the attitude in that workplace was not very enlightened with regards to gay issues. (Though to be fair on Minear, I don't remember him ever saying anything clueless or homophobic. And I'm aware that Fuller is gay.) I really think that they should have to earn back our trust on this issue, rather than having it handed them on a plate just because there's a lesbian or gay character on their show.

Personally, I did not really mind whether Wonderfalls stayed on the air or not. I approached it thinking that the premise of the show was dumb (which btw, does not mean that I'll hate a show - I felt the same way about the premises of 'Joan of Arcadia' and 'Buffy' and ended up really liking both shows), I watched two episodes and then gave up because it wasn't really my thing. After that, I didn't care whether it stayed on the air or not.

On the one hand, I think it's a shame that shows get yanked after such a small number of episodes. On the other hand, Firefly limped on for almost half a season, and people still said that it hadn't really been given a chance. Sometimes, shows just don't connect with audiences no matter how much promotion or how many chances they're given. (I only tune into Fox for American Idol and the Simpsons, and I saw trailers for 'Wonderfalls' many, many times. So I don't buy the argument that it wasn't promoted properly. The only thing that they could have done that they didn't do is stick it on after American Idol.)

If they had put on 'Wonderfalls' in October, I think it would have been cancelled even more quickly, yet people are complaining that they didn't show it till March. They could have showed it in January or during the summer, and I think the net result would have been the same. And as for giving the show a chance to build an audience - it had its chance. It didn't build an audience. The viewing figures dropped further every episode they aired, so it seems like the more people saw of the show, the less they liked it. If the viewing figures had carried on dropping at the same rate they had been, by time they showed episode 9, the Nielsens would have actually in the minuses. Which I suppose would have been entertaining, in its own way.

As for all the hand-wringing about the show's cancellation: honestly, that's the nature of being a TV viewer. 'Arrested Development' is, imo, infinitely more entertaining and original than 'Wonderfalls' could ever have been, and yet it's probably only going to have one season. 'Karen Sisco' was a really entertaining show, and 'Boomtown' was an original show with some great characters, yet they both got cancelled too. Great shows do get cancelled. That's life. But sometimes shows which are both original and good - like 'Joan of Arcadia', or '24', or 'The X-Files' - really catch on and become hits. That's part of the nature of TV too. And like the executives, we can never really predict what's going to be successful.

What kind of novels do you write: fiction or nonfiction? - US immigration officer to Ian McEwan

Edited by: tyche at: 4/15/04 12:05 pm

[seurat]

Well, if nothing else this show and it's quick cancellation have provoked some interesting discussion in this thread, altho that may reflect more on the quality and diversity of kitten discourse that it does on the show. I've stated my views on the show before,but in short, I thought it was uneven but promising and would like to have seen more. Maybe if the remaining ep's are run here (Canada) or on dvd I'll be able to make a reasonable judgement on the worth of the program.



My problem with what happened to this thread was not that many of the posts were negative about the show, but that it seemed to me that the negativity had little or nothing to do with the perceived quality or lack of quality of Wonderfalls, and everything to do with the identity of a couple of people involved with the creative team. Which is ok too, of course, no rules against it. But there is another part of the board specially created for that sort of venting, and I know it was being used. Personally I save my venom for only one person involved with ME, everyone's else's subsequent work I'm prepared to judge on it's merit. I personally don't think that makes me any less of a W/T fan. And I wouldn't bother posting in threads of shows I don't watch, regardless of who writes/produces or runs the show. Some day I wouldn't mind getting into a discussion on this board of which is more important, the art or the artist? And where do you draw that line? That's always interested me.



Plenty of the criticism of the show seemed valid to me, and it's cancellation certainly doesn't mean the end of quality tv, even if we could all agree what constitutes quality. (And by my count, quality tv has already died many times anyway. So far, it has always risen again.) What is undeniable I think is that networks are still too quick on the kill button. Maybe showing all 13 ep's wouldn't have helped Wonderfalls, maybe starting it earlier in the season wouldn't have helped either. i'm inclined to think otherwise, but we'll never know. Maybe having it on another network would have resulted in another outcome, but in my experience they are all pretty much the same. That's more than enough for now, I think.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[sam7777]

Tyche: I agree with you on Wonderfalls. Even when a show wasn't that good like the first couple of seasons of Star Trek Next Gen, there was soemthing to keep me watching like likeable characters, the setting and even some of the plots. For me, Wonderfalls had none of these things. I've been burned too many times to committ to shows so easily anymore. TV is a crap shoot and I find myself needing to look at the writers and producers of the show as much as the character and themes to decide on a show. IMHO it's a valid a criteria as any to judge a show, though OMMV.



I miss the days of TV syndication. Before Fox, the WB and UPN, there were channels that would pick up syndicated shows. Now they all seem to be affiliates of Fox, the WB and UPN. Back in the day, shows that did well in certain local markets but not others could thrive in syndication. This is what lauched Trek Next Gen, Deep Space Nine and Xena. The shows didn't have to get boffo ratings. They just had to sell to enough local stations. Nowadays with conglomerates owning most of the stations, it's harder to get good genre shows on the air long enough to build an audience. I can certainly sympathize with folks who miss "Wonderfalls" and don't think it was given a chance. Though I don't feel the same about "Wonderfalls", I certainly do about "Brimstone" and "John Doe".



Another possible paradigm for network TV that I think would help genre shows is a limited series. ABC tried that with Steven King's Kingdom and British TV routinely uses this format. I think a limited 12 episode scifi or horror show would be a preferable way to fill a network's midseaoson that all of those reality shows. Creators could creator one story arc. If the show does well, they could do a second series. If not at least the first could be aired in full.