Star Trek

[aceivan]

I just finished watching season 3 of Enterprise. I liked it, although a couple of times I thought it was a little too dark for Star Trek, but what happened to the Suliban and the guy from the future? Do they return in season 4 and did they reveal the identity of Future Guy or was that plotline dropped?

Len

[Sheridan]

Do they return in season 4 and did they reveal the identity of Future Guy or was that plotline dropped?

The whole temporal cold war plot is wound up at the beginning of S4, ironically they finally decided it was past its sell by date and switched to plots that filled in the gaps in Star Trek history just in time to get cancelled. To answer the specific questions without giving away anything for people watching C4 in the UK:

Spoiler:

The Suliban do make one last appearance but the mysterious future guy is never identified.

[aceivan]

The whole temporal cold war plot is wound up at the beginning of S4

Thanks Sheridan. I like the time travel episodes in all the Star Trek series and, although I'd have liked to see more, at least they provided a resolution to the temporal cold war storyline.

Len

[dark_chylde]

As this is after all a Star Trek Thread and not only about "Enterprise", I hope I will not be beat to death when I say I never liked "Enterprise" ...

I tried when it began and I saw an episode here and there but it never interested me the least bit. OK, I'll admit, in the beginnig each series was lacking something. characters had to develop, stories had to be built....
but "Enterprise" never got to me.

I never liked the actors (Scott Bakula in STAR TREK ??? - oh, please....)and I thought from the start that the story was ridiculous - having an enterprise before the first enterprise NCC-1701.

I always felt that a new Trek series should go forward in time and not back ... a part of the magic was always new technologies and lifeforms - the unknown in general.

But having an Enterprise showing the beginning of space exploration with technologies we have already seen better and faster .... the idea never interested me.

But I envy the fans who did like it as they had new stories to wait for, while I have to watch my TNG-DVDs over and over again.
I'm thinking of getting all the Voyager DVDs, too..... so I could watch Janeway and company for a change. I have to like Voyager, not only because of Janeway as first female captain but we also share the first name And of course I adore Seven of Nine ......

I loved the post about the whole Entrprise story being a holonovel watched by Riked and Troi as they are my favourite characters.
Wouldn't they make a great theme for a new series ??


Kathy

[aceivan]

But I envy the fans who did like it as they had new stories to wait for, while I have to watch my TNG-DVDs over and over again.
I'm thinking of getting all the Voyager DVDs, too..... so I could watch Janeway and company for a change. I have to like Voyager, not only because of Janeway as first female captain but we also share the first name And of course I adore Seven of Nine ......

Although I quite liked Enterprise I think TNG was the best of all the series, including the original, and Kate Mulgrew as Janeway was my main reason for watching Voyager. I'm hoping that the next series will be set in the future again but if the rumours about the next movie being set between Enterprise and TOS are true it might not be. The movie used as the pilot for a future series perhaps?

Len

[Sheridan]

but if the rumours about the next movie being set between Enterprise and TOS are true it might not be. The movie used as the pilot for a future series perhaps?

I think you can dismiss that rumour, they are not going to spend the sort of money a Star Trek movie costs on a crew and ship no one has ever heard of.

[aceivan]

The problem with using the existing shows is that the way each of them ended would make it difficult to lead into a movie. Another Next Gen would probably be without Picard and Data, most of the DS9 characters left the station in the last episode, Voyager arrived home and presumably the characters have moved on. I don't know exactly how Enterprise ends, so would it be possible to continue the storyline into a movie and would it be popular enough to attract the non-fans? Of course they could simply choose the most popular characters from all the shows and give them their own ship.

Len

[dark_chylde]

Of course they could simply choose the most popular characters from all the shows and give them their own ship.

I'd like that idea very much .... the problem only is, that the best characters (that, of course, lies in the eye of the beholder) have all died or moved on: Data, Riker & Troi, Jadzia Dax....etc, etc.

And as much as I like Picard - but I don't think he would work as a captain with a complete new crew - not to mention on a ship that is not the Enterprise !

And I agree that "Enterprise" was probably not poplar enough to make the movie about them .... at least I know a lot of people who stopped watching it quite fast because they didn't like it either.

So, maybe they will start a new series ... and wait a few years before they'll start on a new movie

[BBOvenGuy]

George Takei has come out.

Yes, you heard correctly. The 68 year old actor who played Hikaru Sulu in the original Trek has revealed that he's gay in an interview for Frontiers magazine. He's been with his current partner for 18 years.

Details at CNN.com

[urnofosiris]

I can´t say I am surprised somehow, but good for him to say it out loud. Hopefully when there comes a new Trek show, and I am sure that will happen some day, they will finally include gay characters as well. That seems to be a final frontier they have a hard time crossing.

[jago]

It was a big surprise to me, but I have really crap gaydar.

Even more surprising was his age. He's looking pretty damn good for 68.

[Tyrex316]

That seems to be a final frontier they have a hard time crossing.

Which is surprising since a few of the Star Trek novels have had lesbian and gay characters. Most recently, the new series Titan(the one with Riker as captain) had a gay security chief and one of the minor plotlines was an engineering ensign trying to get up the courage to ask him on a date.

[urnofosiris]

I did not know that they have gay characters in the novels, but then I am not into Star Trek enough to read them. I am curious though, do any of these characters have significant others or does it no go beyond wanting to ask someone on a date?

[Tyrex316]

In the book, Titan, the security chief is injured towards the end of the story and in a coma. The pick up Tuvoc,from Voyager, during the course of their first mission and later find themselves thousands of lightyears from home. Tuvoc has the worst luck;) And he becomes the interim security chief. The second book is out, so I'm not sure how that is resolved. But in one book, The Best and The Brightest, a novel mostly based around a group of Starfleet Academy students, there is a lesbian couple in that and that ends with them in a relationship,albeit a long distance one, since they're assigned to different ships.

[jago]

There's some information here about gay characters in Star Trek books and comics but it hasn't been updated for a long time.

http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/trek2.html#books

The rest of the site deals with the lack of gay characters in the Star Trek shows and the rumours about Hawk from First Contact and at least one of the characters from Enterprise being gay. There are also some interesting quotes from Patrick Stewart, Kate Mulgrew and Scott Bakula.

Hopefully things will change with the next series.

[sam7777]

Given the environment, I'm not suprised George Takei stayd in the closet.

Yeah it's a shame that Star Trek with all their other firsts never crossed the gay barrier. And a further shame that no one has ever given us a long term lesbian relationship on TV that doesn't end badly. I think that if Trek had tried, they would have given us that. Barring that it's a shame that Babylon 5 never did either. Nor Andromeda, BG, Farscape or Stargate etc etc etc. For my part I think gay portrayals on network TV have devolved since Willow/Tara. It seems the folks who do genre shows have no interest in breaking new ground. More's the pity.

[Sheridan]

and the rumours about Hawk from First Contact

Not actually a rumour based on the books, there it is clearly established he's gay, in fact the previously mentioned gay character in the 'Titan' sequence is his surviving ex. There is also a gay character in the SCE serioes and a lesbian couple in Vanguard, one of whom is a Vulcan and the other is a disguised Klingon spy, si I don't se it lasting. It is regrettable that so far none of the on screen representations of Trek have had an overtly gay character but there's always next time...

[sam7777]

It is regrettable that so far none of the on screen representations of Trek have had an overtly gay character but there's always next time...

I have hopes that if they did do it, I'd like to think that they would do it right but who knows.

There's really no genre show that has taken the risk and carried it through to a truly ground breaking portrayal where we have a long term lesbian couple that doesn't end in tradgedy. Some like the show that shall not be named and Xena only took it part way and ended in the cliche. All the others never really tried. At least not that I've heard.

That said, I think it's fair to expect more from Trek considering the ground they broke in the 60's with race and women. But it seems that after that they just rested on their laurels. I think if they had had the guts to keep going they might still be on the air. It would certainly have differentiated them from all the other scifi spaceship shows that were out.

[BBOvenGuy]

It seems the folks who do genre shows have no interest in breaking new ground.

Except for Doctor Who, and probably more so with its upcoming spinoff, Torchwood.

[Sheridan]

Except for Doctor Who, and probably more so with its upcoming spinoff, Torchwood.

True, Captain Jack may not have a significant other but that's mostly because it would cramp his style.

[sam7777]

Bob, I stand corrected. I wish more genre shows would take the plunge.

I'd like to see a future where gay folks are no longer anathema. Genre shows have the unique opportunity to make social statements using metaphor to make it more palatable even to the unconverted. I know that orginal Trek having female officers and diversity of characters made a big impression on me. It made me dream of working in science which I do now rather than just being a secretary or wife like many of my friends. I believe that if a show would show a long term lesbian couple without the unorignal dead/evil cliche, it would make an impact as large as Trek's interracial kiss did. And I have nothing but contempt and scorn for those who refuse to make it so.

[Sheridan]

I think one drawback with having a lesbian couple on a genre show is that the writers would want to do stuff with them, by which I mean the 'constant peril' rollercoaster type stuff. I think the only two real onscreen relationships with regular cast members in Trek have been Riker/Troi and Trip/T'Pol. The former was very much in the background during the TV run, it isn't really settled until what they knew would be the last TNG movie. As for Trip/T'Pol well that was rocky to say the least. Almost every other relationship has ended disastrously or just plain hit the rocks.

[jago]

Except for Doctor Who, and probably more so with its upcoming spinoff, Torchwood.

And he's criticised for it. On a Doctor Who message board earlier today someone accused Russell T Davies, the exec producer of Doctor Who, for 'wearing his homosexuality on his sleeve' and daring to include gay characters in his shows. I really don't understand the reluctance to include gay characters in genre shows. Doctor Who didn't suddenly become less popular when Jack was introduced, and Willow & Tara didn't make the show that won't be named less popular, at least not until someone seemed determined to use the self destruct switch.

[sam7777]

I think one drawback with having a lesbian couple on a genre show is that the writers would want to do stuff with them, by which I mean the 'constant peril' rollercoaster type stuff.

Sheridan: I actually don't have a problem with that given that they don't end it badly as happens nearly 100% of the time. This is expected if they were major characters and had a plot arc but there is no law that it must end badly: only a sever lack of imagination. Frankly I REFUSE TO BELIEVE that there are NO OTHER gay stories to tell than those that end in DEATH or TRADGEDY. It implicitly states intended or not that gay people cannot be happy and that's a sad and completely inaccurate message for GLBT teens.

Surely no one in Trek this side of Kirk had a more disastrous love life than Kira and most of her guys survived except Vedek Bariel. The end of Kira and Odo was sad but very sweet with both surviiving. In any case, there really can't be a comparison between hetero and gay couples given the almost complete dearth of the latter. If one, two or a hundred het relationships end tragically there are a thousand others that don't on TV and in movies.

Sadly a gay couple in the background would be a huge improvement to what we are getting on network TV.

[urnofosiris]

Thanks for the info Tyrex and Jago.

Trek had every kind of straight relationship you can think off, anything from the "one episode stands", the disastrous, till the stable long lasting and happy. Chief O´Brien married Keiko on TNG and they stayed together all through the 7 seasons of DS9 with it´s numerous wars and angsty moments. He was a regular and she a recurring character, but they had enough often amusing storylines together and they remained a happy couple. So even if the show´s producers are too hesitant to have two main gay characters on screen together all the time, they could show a relationship like the O´Briens. I would be happy to have that at least. There is no reason not to have gay characters, both single and in relationships, they can end up happy or miserable, as long as there is a fair balance. I am glad to hear that some of the main stars at least made an effort to make it happen.

[jago]

Well I just finished watching season 4 of Enterprise and I really enjoyed it. Each season has been better than the last and I'm so disappointed that it had to end when it was at it's best. So no more new Star Trek for a while. I'm going to miss it.

[Sheridan]

Each season has been better than the last and I'm so disappointed that it had to end when it was at it's best.

That was the fundamental problem, they tried to distance Enterprise form the other series in the first couple of years and by the time the realized it was a mistake it was too late to save the show.

[FineyMcFine]

Does anyone have any scoop on if the Trek franchise has plans to develop another Trek series? I was half into Enterprise, half not (but now that we have Tivo I would for sure watch every episode; part of my problem was forgetting to set the damn VCR and they kept changing the air date).

Of course, I also have DS9 DVDs to watch, and I'm only a few episodes into Season 1. Many people have told me that DS9 is their favorite series so I'm looking forward to it. Too much other TV right now to focus on it though, so hopefully soon.

[jago]

I've only heard the rumour posted earlier in the thread about the next movie, nothing about a new show. It's probably too early yet. In the special features on the season 4 DVDs they gave the impression that that was the end of Star Trek for quite a while.

[sam7777]

I'd like to see someone other than Berman and Braga bring Star Trek back. Trek needs some new blood.