Curious Confused and Questioning - help needed!

[RainbowVanessa]

Hello everyone. I think this is a great site! I have just joined and this is my first post. :-)

I'm 23. This all started thanks to my boyfriend of two years. Like many guys, he had the treesome fantasy thing going, and though he was never pushy, once I got past my initial jealous "no way am I willingly gonna so much as let you look at another girl naked" feelings (we are both each other's first), I found it a bit intruiging. It was also suggested that having a female partner might help me be more sexually satisfied, as I have a much higher sex drive than my boyfriend, and it was causing conflit and frustration, and being a very monogamous sort, I had an aversion to cheating or swinging with another man. After about a year I was at the point of wondering what it would be like to be with a girl. One reckless night, I suddenly took the plunge and placed an ad on the internet looking for a partner, since I have no idea how to else to go about it in real life. My ad was honest and detailed and I initially was disapointed not to get a reply, but after a couple of weeks, a wonderful girl answered back, and I got SO excited and happy and just went crazy fantasizing about all the stuff I wanted to do with her (I still had not decided if I'd want to share her in a threesome or anything). It revitalised my solo sex life, because I wasn't just trying to take care of dissapointment and rejection, and it was like a breath of fresh air. We talked for hours at a time on the phone, and went on 3 dates over the course of 3 weeks, and I found that she was everything I didn't know I wanted. It helped that at a time when I was exploring my sexuality, she was confortable and well established with hers (she's bi), and I trusted her to help me understand myself, and provide a safe place to explore that stuff. She also made it very clear she was attracted to me and really liked me, and started being foreward physically, kissing me on the cheek and flirting and stuff. It was a big deal for me, and a bit confusing, so I didn't take it further. A day or two after this date and I realised I was ready, willing, and totally falling for her in particular, and I wanted her to be my girlfriend. Then this just happened:

For the next week, she didn't call me back, and when I called I found out that she was having a "mood" problem severe enough that she couldn't get out of bed for a few days. I knew she was taking medication for anxiety and stuff, so I undestood. We went out on a date that we had planned weeks earlier, but she was distant and seemed drained, and didn't return my tentive flriting, and wanted to go home early. After a couple of days I called her back, and she told me that she didn't think that this was going to work because, though it had nothing to do with me, I guess I made her realise that she wasn't ready for a relationship as she had thought, and had to work on personal issues before she could be in one. I asked if if she thought it would be weird to just stay friends, and she said it would, and wished me a nice life. I was so shocked and hurt I didn't know what to do, and just hung up and cried, basically realising how much she had meant to me, and how much I had thought about our future together.

Now I am very sad and dissapointed, because I realised how much I really liked her, and I can't stop thinking about her, or wondering if I did something wrong. It really hurts that she indicated she didn't want to stay friends, but maybe that was just to make the cut faster and cleaner, and easier for us both. I know it seems silly since this has been going on less than a month, but it was such a big deal to me. I don't date guys casually, much less casually go about preparing to explore my sexuality with a girl, and comepletly open up to them. Now I don't know if I want to go there at all, if it's worth it for me at this time in my life, since I always did have doubts about being in 2 relationships at the same time. I wonder if she's already over me, despite how much she seemed to like me, because she did say she gets over people fairly easily. I'm the opposite. I do understand the necessity of being a whole person before being part of a relationship, and I respect this fact and admire her making the hard choice, and I know that it was just my bad luck that it was with me she realised this. But I'm torn about what to do.

Honestly, I still want her, very much, to have a relationship with her, and I am still very sexually attracted. I'd be willing to wait until she was ready....that could be a while, or not. I know that I have had similar feelings in the past, but being in a relationship actually helped me work through my issues, and proved to be a positive thing, despite what I had initially thought. It's possible that it's that way for her. But if I told her any of this, I don't think she'd be very receptive. i don't want to seem pushy. At least I would like to stay friends with her, cause I like her as a person, and enjoy doing things with her, and I so much want to help her in this problem and give her my support, as much as I am able to. I really care about her.And I'm fairly certain that I'm not so involved that I couldn't press the reset button and try and see her as a friend only. But she was so quick with me over the phone, and so seemingly sure of her words that I don't know if she even wants anything to do with me. I don't want to seem obsesive or crazy, especially if she's no longer even thinking of me. So I was thinking of giving it about a week for both of us to cool off, and then emailing her with my offer of friendship, and seeing if she responds.

What do you guys think I should do? What do you think happened? How the hell did I trigger this? Was it cause I didn't kiss her back (that sure sounds silly)? Should I just forget about her? HELP!

***

On a related topic...Obviously I'm bi-curious. Am I bi-sexual? Unfortunately I still have little experience to draw from. I know in some respects it doesn't matter, and I understand that the line from straight to gay is more of a continum than a black and white label, but it's still weird and confusing for someone who has considered themselves straight all their life, and doesn't see that as actually being the wrong label. I guess I've always thought that because (in my opinion) our souls are genderless and we just get stuck into these bodies, that we are really all bi-sexual, because it's more the connection with other people's souls that matter. Thus I have never understood adamantly straight or adamantly gay people who for the life of them could never be attracted to both genders. But this "girlfriend" (if I can call her that...or ex, or whatver) told me she always knew she was bi-sexual because she had been attracted to both sexes as a child. I've had crushes ever since kindergarden, and they've always been boys, even though my family and upbringing is liberal-minded. I really like guys. I have felt sexual thoughts about good looking women, but interestingly, almost from an alter-ego male perspective, for instance where I wanted to bend her over and fuck her, as if I had a penis, and other sorts of many agressive fucking things involving penises and strong upper bodies. In my usual straight relationships, I more enjoy being submissive. I fell in love with a woman once (and her with me), with her soul, and had these kinds of male sexual feelings (she was very feminine), but since we were both "straight", and couldn't envision having a fulfilling permanent relationship without a guy involved, it was never pursued at all, though I guess if it were happening now, I might try. I suspect maybe I could have a permanent relationship with just a woman, though I'm not sure. I am pretty uncomfortable with the idea of having two parteners, whatever their gender, I'm very one-on-one. But with the "gf" I've been talking about, my sexual feelings for her were strong and not from any alter-ego, it was all girl-on-girl big gay love action. I don't feel this way about anyone else, but maybe it was because we approached it as a girl-on-girl thing from the outset?. I'm so confused!


I appologise for the monster post, brevity evades me in this situation, but I'm sure any Willow and Tara fan would understand! I'd like to thank you all in advance for any help, comments or random free-flow musing about my situation! I don't have anyone else to turn to really (being that I'm not "out" or sure if being out is even appropriate in my situation) so having this forum to talk about it is very much appreciated!

[inlerf]

Um... just random conjectures and questions...

By "partner" and your ad, did you mean like, a relationship partner partner or a fling partner partner? 'cause your bf wanted a threesome, so I kinda assume it'd be a fling with some other girl (together)?
Thus, if it possible she misunderstood what you wanted, and later on as your dates progressed, maybe it was discovered you were too clingy and/or fast for her? - "just went crazy fantasizing about all the stuff I wanted to do with her"; "A day or two after this date and I realised I was ready, willing, and totally falling for her in particular, and I wanted her to be my girlfriend." <<< Did you tell her that?

How severe is her anxiety/mood/stuff problems? Often occurs? It's kinda I don't know, risky-ish should it happen a lot? I mean it's good to help her get over it but um... eh, I'm not good with words. (Get?)

Else yeah, a week sounds good. If she does have such mood swings, some time may be for her to come around.

By the by, how does your bf feel toward you having a gf?

[RainbowVanessa]

Thanks for your reply inlerf. I'll answer your questions as best I can.

In my ad I stated that I wasn't really sure what I was looking for, be it relationship or fling. I definately wasn't sure if I wanted a threesome, it was just what started this whole line of questioning. When I met her, I relalised that a relationship (and by that I mean a more long-term thing that included emotion and building rapport, not necessarily a huge soul-mate forever thing) was in order. She also indicated that she wanted more than a fling or a one-night stand, she wanted a relationship, so I believe our desires were mutual.

I didn't tell her any of that "stuff," all the fantasizing was in my head, and when we had talked about being girlfriends (we were very open), it was more her encouraging a still unsure me. Because it was her making so many of the advancements, I didn't have any reason to think she didn't want this to happen. I certainly never declared my undying love and called her everyday, even, that would just be creepy. I'm just talking about the mostly universal emotional stuff that goes on in your head that you wait to see if it's real, you don't necessarily tell people that stuff, especially at first. It was just a big deal because I moved from ambivalency to being certain about doing this, as long as it was with her. I was though, on our last date going to ask her to be my girlfriend, because I felt I should make my feelings for her clear and show that it wasn't just her that wanted it. I don't think that was clingy behaviour.

I do know what you mean about the mood stuff. I had a friendship like that once that I had to end. I don't want to be someone to dump on who, if I have my own problems, just gets tossed aside, and I don't want to never know if today's a bad day and walk on eggshells, and be held at armslength some of the time, and be totally trusted other times. Inconsistancy is lousy among friends and lovers...and maybe she'd be so focused on herself as priority # 1 that she would be unable to think of the needs and feelings of others, and it's for the best. The truth is, I don't know how bad it is, so I can't really judge.

My bf, who was the one to suggest it, after the initial surprise that I had placed the ad, is totally fine with me having a gf, which is not something I can entirely understand. He was super kind and understanding through this whole mess, and totally got how I feel. An amazing guy.

[RainbowVanessa]

Well I guess if out of 150 views I only got one reply, I'm not going to get anymore. Luckily however I came across a thread on another site about a similar problem that made me think. This is some of what it said, as it applies to my situation (for anyone in the future with a problem like this):


-If he/she cannot have you with them on fixing things...just as a support, not getting in and helping but as a shoulder... then I guess you are not part of their plans in the future.

-If there is "fixing" to be done and he doesn't feel that I can help or be included, it makes me wonder what else we won't share.

-Sometimes people know that something needs to be fixed- but arent too sure exactly what it is or how to go about fixing it.

-If you're waiting for someone to make up their mind or sort out their life and you have no idea how long that will take, that is so hard.

-In my own experience, the times I have excercised patience have been fruitless. He fixed it and moved on.

-If you wait around you become a clingy person .....not yourself.......

-You're inexperienced and too young to know when to break up. Things are weird, clingy, and too much emphasis is placed on first kiss, first whatever. And everyone tries to fight their instincts because they can’t accept that they are not really into whoever even though he or she is nice, kind, giving, funny, ect. Given a few years time, you’ll have went through enough stuff to know when to move on.

-The best advice I have ever gotten about breaking up was ‘When you don’t know where you stand in a relationship, you know.”

I also just found out through the grapevine that she's manic depressive and supposedly has a history of not taking her pills when things are going good (leading them to go bad again), and mixing them with alchohol. Well, i saw the opposite with the alcohol as we went to a bar and there was much restraint on her part, so maybe it's a little hype, but anyways, these ARE serious issues, and maybe she was right not to bring me into them. I wouldn't have run, hell, I suspected, but, knowing this makes me feel a bit better about the whole thing.

[WebWarlock]

RV,

I would count out getting help just yet. This is a very big issue and a very long post. It has only been a couple of days, a good response may take some time.

As to your other issue, ar you bisexual, bi-curious or straight?
Well, I might be the last person you could speak on this (having allways been straight), but here is some advise.

A very close friend of mine recently worked out some of her "bi-curious" desires as well. We were talking and the question came up is she now bisexual. She decided in the end the choice was hers and that is was about self-identification. You are what you say you are.

Here is my two cents though.

Do look to others to help resolve any isssues you might have. Especially when that person has issues of their own.

Other points of view may vary.

Warlock

[RainbowVanessa]

Thanks for your thoughts, Warlock. And I will try to be patient...I hope I didn't seem rude, I just figured it had become too long for most people to bother with it. As time goes by, it gets easier to figure this stuff out anyways.

I assume you meant "don't look to other people"...and that's true. I guess though, it''s hard to judge attraction without someone to be attracted to, and it's hard to judge how serious it is, without some interaction with the person. I mean, since "curiosity" is in the definition, how can you tell if it's more than that, if you haven satisfied it? How can it become part of your "sexuality" if you haven't tested it out?

It's very interesting to start to view yourself in a new light. Yesterday, a thought popped into my head, that I could define myself as a lesbian if I wanted. Obviously I'm not one, but I started imagining that this girl (me) walking up the stairs, with all the other labels and ideas she had about herself, identified herself as a lesbian, and I imagined how that identity would feel, how it would be to live with my female partner, to sleep with her at night. It was exhilarating, and liberating, to know that I could be anything I wanted to be, and so different from how I've seen myself up till now (not to say being a lesbian is a choice, and acuracy isn't important...but I'm sure you all get that :-) ). I imagine some trans people or drag queens might have those kinds of feelings. And so I did the same thing imagining I was bi-sexual (slightly more confusing, cause now the question of accurracy came in). It was a kinda nice feeling, I can date anyone if I want! I could get used to it.

But these labels don't mean much. You unconciously limit yourself, by your own labelling and self-conception, and then, if you take on a new one, when you get used to yourself you feel expansion into that. But what you call yourself doesn't matter until you've figured out how you really feel, what it means to be you, to the point where you can articulate it. The label is just a shorthand of the articulation, and thus, never accurate. But it's use I think, in the beginning stages, can be to push your perception of yourself and try on a stranger, unaccustomed role.

Then the lable becomes helpful to solidify who you think you are. There are good points to this new set of stable self-perceptions - during times of turmoil it can help you remain centred, and can help you make choices. (But it can also limit you and make you not as open-minded). I am bisexual, therefore, I am going to approach this nice girl as a potential mate, (a completely new way of thinking for me). I approach girls always as friends. Actually, same with guys, and so naturally I never dated much! *L*

With both sexes, I've regarded the ones that caught my eye aesthetically, primarily, which is not surprising since I'm an artist. For guys, I think it was because flirrting has never come to me naturally, and because of my lack of self-confidence in the "I'm such a hot little number, anyone that sees me will want to have me, I know cause it's always been like that in the past" realm. And for girls, well, I figured I was mostly straight. Then for both sexes, if I let my mind wander to more sexual thoughts, they were there aplenty, but I had to allow myself to go there, which I did only in passing, maybe to protect myself from potential rejection, or because I like to think of people as people first...or both. For me to see them at first as a potential mate always required something extraodinary, something very sexual about their personality yet subtle (cause I'm not into flash or promiscuty)...a sexual growl in their voice, a sensual, sexual way of moving, a glint in their eyes when they were talking about something they were passionate about, a very sublty sexy choice of clothing that also showed uniqueness and creativity. Or else freedom to just fantasize about them, like the character Tara, who was instantly attractive (but if I met Amber in real life, she'd be friend as a first though). Which is maybe why I was so attracted to this partner of mine, cause it started as a dating thing right off the bat, thanks to the glory of the internet. Of I had met her in real life, probably it wouldn't have been quite like that...on a tangent here, but I found it quite interesting, and so must you, I command!

Labels also make a great shorthand to express who you are to people and yourself.. What do I tell my good friends, if they asked? I have no clue. I WANT them to know, to share myself, but I have to know it for myself firsthand. So I can't say all sure and proud "I'm Bisexual! And by the way, do you know anyone?" No I'm like, "well I think I might be bisexual with certain people but I'm not sure, I mean, sometimes that wrought iron lamp looks pretty sexy. But then I don't want to bury my face into it's crevices. *stridently* Shut up, I don't fit into molds, I am a rebel! Ok fine, you know I'm not. I'm so confused!" And that just sucks. I don't want to be wishy washy about my heart, my identity, my mate. Fickel people piss me off! And so of course not being able to figure it out myself is distressing. And if you haven't noticed yet, I have a hard time blanketly accepting situations which are neither here nor there, I need to analyse and completely understand everything! So frustrating!

Lastly, by acknowleging a label, you get to be a part of the encompassing social circle, which if they're not closed-minded elitists themselves, can be a pretty fun and broadning experience. Thinking I'm bisexual and dating a girl all into the gay sub-culture, which was virgin territory for me, had led me to wonder about going to gay bars (well, i always did, but now with no shame, and nothing to prove to people who wouldn't respect regular curiosity). There are two events in my city, the Homohop (gay party dance extraveganza for students and young people), and the Black and Blue ball (a formal S&M shindig, but if you're any kind of traditional "sexual devient" your fairly welcome) that I have for the first time this year considered going to. Not that this kind of stuff is that important, I could be gay, quiet and not celebrate but still be completely happy and open and have a great gay life. But my interest in it is, besides just curiosity over the sights and experiences, is to meet likeminded people to make friends or talk or even date, and to understand myself better by seeing myself reflected in that diversity, and to be able to let go about my identity and not think about it, have it just presumed. I imagine that would be liberating. And insightful. And fun.

"When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
- Alice Through the Looking Glass

I subscribe to this way of thinking. But what you say means nothing if you don't know what to say. And if you don't know what to say, you can't have one of those nifty, helpful labels.

My 92 cents and mostly freeflow thinking.

[Giftofamber]

The way I view bisexuality is being attracted to someone because of their personality rather than solely because of gender. I'm also a very monogamous (yes, I consider myself bi) person and would feel entirely uncomfortable in the situation you were describing. I'm telling you that so you can place what I have to say in a better context, not because I expect you to believe what I do. I've fallen hard for both men and women. When I stated I preferred guys, I fell for girls, and when I stated I preferred girls, I fell for guys, so I just kind of figured out that you fall for who you fall for and gender has little to do with it in my case. Sexual identity is a very confusing, difficult issue that I tried to steer clear of for years.

I find it odd that she was unwilling to remain friends--in my experience, it's always been much easier to maintain friendships with former girlfriends than former boyfriends. It's probably something going on in her head moreso than anything you said or did if only for the fact that if it wasn't, she should be able to communicate it with you. Do you know what her experience was with girls before you? When she was with other girls, were the other girls also seeing other people at the same time? Maybe she has an "ideal" someone in mind. there's really too many possibilities to guess one.

[RainbowVanessa]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, that was very thought provoking.

I think it's natural to be attracted to souls, and secondary stuff to be attracted hormonally to gender. Both genders can be pretty yummy if you look at it unbiasly (or maybe I'm just bi? *L*) . So even thinking of myself as straight, I found appreciation of both to be a natural thing.

The question I guess is, if you want to be with that person one only, for the rest of your life. If I could say yes to this question, I would consider myself truly bi. I don't know if I could go that far with a girl. Are penises and all manner of yummy masculinity that important? Maybe that's something I can find out with experience.

It IS a pretty weird situation. It was kind of backwards for me to be choosing by gender first, and personality second. I think it's only because it WAS more of a gender issue than one of a particular person, that I could reconcile doing this. (Although, I found out that I was not as invulnerable to falling for a girl as I thought, she happened to be a great one, and that changed things). I guess the idea was to see if this was even a legitmate option for me, and statisfy some extra sexual longing, not to pick up a new mate. Being born monogamously inclined (is that a word?), and dating 2 people seems complicated, potentially dangerous, and uncomfortable. I worried that I would get so into my new flame, which would be all roses, thanks to the first blushes of love, that I would somehow ignore or be less close with my boyfriend.or that I couldn't give her as much as I could, the assurances I could give to my boyfriend, the idea of a trial run of forever, instead of a "enjoy it while it lasts". Being intimate with someone, in my view, implies exchanging energy with permanent effects and entangling one another into your destinies. Pretty serious stuff that I don't think can be given split attention. I still have concerns about doing this with 2 people at once, it's fairness each, and my ability to give both what they need. I guess I just thought I could skip all this cause I was trying out something really new and exiting, and it ended up as it so often does, as much more complicated than that. (though I know for sure now, that I wouldn't have participated in a threesome, that it would have been two distinct relationships...still pretty messed up).

But on the other hand, spontaneously combusted, it was much more pure, innocent, honest, and open than I thought it would be. It revitalised my sex-life, with my boyfriend and otherwise, it brought me and him much closer, it gave me a chance to learn and to do some fun stuff, and discover a beautiful person. And I WAS able to love (if it had progressed that far) 2 people at once, seemingly without problem. It was nothing but good really. So, so much for pre-conceived notions. But of course, I suspect something would have come up.

I've always stayed friends with my ex's (male), because I don't see the point of having chosen to spend your life with them if you ultimately can't accept and resolve your conflicts and at least enjoy their friendship. If there isn't something missing, then, why did you bother, and if they're too painful to see, or you get really angry you haven't gotten over them, and if you're still so attracted that it's really hard to just be friends, you haven't realised that they and you have changed from what they once were. Sounds a tad more hard-core than I feel, but, that's as best as I can put it. I'm lucky that my ex's have shared these views and been able to deal with the occasional bitter ribbing and uncomfortable questioning at the beginning of the friendship. So maybe that's why her not wanting to be friends with me is so distressing.

I'm thinking she didn't want to because she either still had feelings for me, or else, realised she totally didn't like me (though I don't see why the change), didn't have the energy to deal with the uncomfortable switchover period because she had her own serious problems, didn't know me enough to realise I would handle it well and was afraid of my reaction, or else panicked and made a quick decision she thought was best, and figures now she can't change it and it's for the best anyways. That's alot of options.

Almost all her other experiences with girls were in the context of threesomes. She had one real girlfriend, but that relationship didn't last long because they were too busy to see each other often (and for whatever other reasons) and her only sexual experience with this woman was while they were both drunk, which I think is unfortunate for her cause she's never really been able to be really intimate with a woman. It's always been partly for show and thus not genuine, or clouded with booze. Maybe the prospect of really being that close and intimate was what scared her? She did seem to accept the fact that I was still going to be with my boyfriend and it would not just be us, and was willing to be satisfied with that, and not go look for something on the side. Maybe I didn't adequately show her that I would really be attentive to her needs too, since I was still a little hesitant at this point. I don't know.

God, why do I write so much, and why can't I help it? Sorry!

[lollipopgirl]

Wow, I loved your label speech, I share alot of the same opinions & I can completely understand where you are coming from when you say that you over analyse things and make things too complicated! I, however, have no advice for you as I don't know much about resolving things like this. But I did want to comment on your "by being labelled you are part of a sub-culture", I know that's not an exact quote but you get the point...I hope! Anyway, I'm straight (...I think...) but I much prefer to have conversations with GLBT people! I don't know what it is, but ever since I was little I've been interested in issues surrounding them and just entirely fascinated. Recently I have helped two gay friends (a male & a female) during their coming out periods and love joking around with them about their sexual preferences. I hope us I get older I don't loose connections with GLBT people, whether it's my current friends or not, because they tend to have a different outlook on life that seems to have more depth.... some, however, can be bitter and that annoys me but.....
Back to the labels, I think many people prefer to label themselves, giving them a sense of identity and others prefer not to as then it becomes real and stereotyped, which I think is what you were saying at one point. I know from my own experiences that my two friends I was refering to earlier love their labels and would never consider not using them. I, on the other hand, prefer not to use labels when it comes to me personally...I'm still questioning myself anyway but once I decide I don't see myself using a full on label!

OK, well, sorry for my longish response and I'm not actually sure what I said, if it made sense, or if it sounds like a little girl speaking trying to sound grown up and fit in but...Pffft, I'm posting it anyway !

Ohh and nice chatting with you the other day, if you still remember!

X-Katie-X

[RainbowVanessa]

Hi Lollipop! (Yum!)

I do remember chatting with you, it was nice :-) And no, you don't sound like a little girl at all, your post made perfect sense, and I enjoyed your thoughts.

Well, I wrote her an email last week asking if she wanted to be friends, in case she changed her mind. She hasn't written me back yet, so I guess the answer's no. I wonder why. Anyways, it's sad and it sucks, but nothing much I can do about it except move on.

I wonder, besides personal ads (which haven't worked), where I can actually find a bi girl to date! I never pick people up in bars, and it seems like a pretty bad idea in general, but besides a gay bar, I really have no clue!

Arrrgh, I still want her!

[funkyasian]

RV - this will be a long one...so get comfy

i read your posts...and it actually compelled me to come out of hiding and re-register with the new board...up until now, i was content to be a lurker. your story...well, has lots of similarities to what i went through years ago...at least the beginning part of it...i feel the need to give you a bit of advice.

let me give you a brief synopsis of my life (and you should find some similarities to your story)...i always thought i was straight, dated guys, did the usual things. so, i found myself in a very serious relationship with a guy ...our sex life was the usual to be expected i suppose...but he would randomly suggest that we bring another woman into our bed. so i did exactly what you did...i placed personal ads online...receive responses, and chatted with a few of them...though i never really met any of them in person. then a girl that we both worked with caught my eye...we flirted, sort of went on a few dates, and i found myself completely smitten with this girl...

my relationship with my bf ended about a year after that...he couldn't take another person sharing my affections (even though he was very supportive of everything i was doing...and he's still a good friend today), and she couldn't deal with him doing the same. i chose to stay with her because of what i thought was love. we shared lots...laughter, tears, anger... 6 months into our actual one-on-one relationship, i found out that she was being medicated for manic depression with a side of bipolar. she too, like your girl had a tendency to stop taking pills when things felt good...which became a horrific cycle. she would hurt herself to watch my reaction when i found out...and she would tell me that it was because of me that she hurt herself. two and a half years and lots of scars (both physical and emotional) later, she decided that she really bi, but wanted to be with a man after all...and left me.

Moral of this story is...don't get into a relationship...any kind of relationship with someone who's not mentally stable, no matter how much you think you like/love her. if you're like me...you'll find yourself with this uncontrollable need to help, which you can't so you feel helpless...which then sucks you into a downward spiral that you really really don't want to go down. you're already confused about who you are, what you feel, and what the future may hold for you if you feel a certain way...why complicate that with a side of mental instability? how productive can a relationship be if you're confused and she's depressed...who do you help first? you, or her? when do you start feeling like a martyr...doing everything to help her and ignoring your own problems? btw...staying friends...doesn't work. not with someone unstable. maybe i'm making a generalization...but in my experience, it's all...or nothing. in this case...all may just be that...all consuming and you'll lose yourself. from your description, she seems the type to more go on a self-deprecating/self destruction trip. don't follow her down that road. not worth it.

as for your other question...are you bi...does it matter? i never fell in love with body parts...i fall in love with the person. there should be no labels to define anyone...you have an understanding bf...but be careful where the line is drawn...there's understanding, and then there's being taken advantage of...don't let him think you're taking advantage of him...else you lose not only a bf, but more fundamentally a friend.

okay, i suppose this has been long enough...sorry if i preached too much...

~steph

[RainbowVanessa]

Wow...

Thank you so much for giving me your advice. I think I will definately take it. I can't believe how similar our situations were, except it seems that you had to live through it and learn the harder way. I will try and put that experience to good use.

I would be the person who would try everything to help her, and now I'm glad that she made the decision she did. I remember in my frienship email specifically saying how I'd be there for her, and try and help as best as I could, etc etc (there was a whole paragraph about how I felt in that regard). Jeez so, what am "I" supposed to get out of it, I don't see anyone offering that to me. Friendships with mentally unstable people... well the ones I had with unstable people started out fine, but ended up so that I was there for them during all their crises, but they just checked out when I had problems I wanted their help with. It would probably end up the same with her, especially because I'm still emotionally attached. It's just hard to blanketly say no to a frienship just cause someone is mentally unstable, expecially because I have some family members who are bi-polar. It's hard to force yourself to descriminate, when you see them as people needing help.. I have a few friends who are in relationships with people like that, and it's working out just fine, but I guess the difference is that those ill people have gone through it and come out the other side, and have already delt with their issues. This leads me to conclude that there is hope, but only after they've done the work themselves.

I can relate to the feeling of helplessness. You can never MAKE someone see themselves in a positive way, and that helplessness is so depressing. No, I don't think it's a good idea to get sucked into that hole.

I'm guessing from your story that it's also a pretty bad idea to be in 2 relationships at once, no matter how understanding and encouraging the partners seem to be. I know I would not be taking advantage of the situation, but I cannot help but believe that not devoting your romantic energies only to one partner would eventually take a toll, and can understand how their tolerance for it would wear out. People change, and as they have to live with the situation, their feelings about it change also.

I can't be sure that my email was ever received by this girl, but I have found through the grapevine again that someone else had approached her for a relationship. She declined because her life was too chaotic, but was open to being friends with them. So I know for sure it was true, what she told me, but I still don't know why she found herself unable to be my friend. Everyone tells me I should move on, and I guess now, it's true. I'm not gonna beg to give her the gift of myself, that's rediculous, and whether she got the email or not...well, maybe it's for the best. Would I truly be ready just to be her friend, and not want her sexually, or even just at a deeper level, when I was so crazy about her? All I know is I could lie convincingly well for her to believe yes, but I don't know what the actual answer is, and I guess I shouldn't keep myself emotionally entagled with someone who had already proven to me once before that she can just cut herself lose without a problem.

Slowly, with lots of advice and alot of thought on my behalf my confusion seems to be sorting itself out. Maybe I'll never know for sure until I'm with a girl, but clearly she isn't the right one for me, and maybe it's worth waiting for my current relationship with my bf to end (if that's the course it takes) then to resolve the issue but bring in alot of new ones. Granted they would become relationship isssues and thus more external than personal sexuality issues are, but I'm starting to think that that question just isn't that important. I suspect I'm bi, maybe not half and half, maybe leaning more toward the guys, but I don't need a girl to make me happy right now. I guess I will just have to be happy with not knowing myself completely for now.

If by preaching you mean, you gave good honest advice, well, you can never do too much of that :-) Thanks again Steph.

[The Pineapple Head]

Hey there, Steph made me read your posts, so I guess I'll throw my 2 cents into the pot.

Whatever journey you end up going on, just remember to be honest with yourself & the people you are involved with, whether they be male or female. You've opened doors that you can't ignore, nor close and you owe it to yourself to recognize that. Don't be content with "no knowing yourself completely" for now, because that's not a solution. Judging by your comments, I imagine you're like me, wanting all the answers all at once and becoming increasingly frustrated when they don't come as quickly as you would like. You're not going to figure it out all at once, because none of us do.

Keep the lines of communication open with your bf, because he deserves to know where your head is at, what you need from him and whether or not he can provide it or opt to walk away. Some things you will have to do alone, but the decisions you make & the things you discover about yourself effect both of you. Every story is different, but they all manage to tell themselves in due time.

[RainbowVanessa]

The irony is, my main reason for wanting to try and explore my sexuality with someone other than my boyfriend was because I didn't feel I was getting enough attention from him. I suppose sexually is what I mean. Not just frequency, which would be bearable, but in quality as well. I want my whole body to be made love to at least once in a while. It's kind of hard to explain what exactly this means, if you don't already know. I guess just being more attentive and sensual. I would like to do this with his body too, and have to some extent, but he doesn't really reciprocate, and often is uncomfortable for whatever reason, frequently too ticklish or whatever. I would like sometimes to be more adventurous too. But this is not something he really likes. And I want to feel more spiritually connected, but it's just not really there when we make love most of the time. We lost our virginities together, and for me that was a really huge deal. I thought it was fairly important to him too, but he doesn't really even remember what happened. Maybe that's a guy thing, maybe I shouldn't take it personally, but it's really hard not to. It hurts me. And it seems to be indicative of our sex-life in general. I feel our sex life is nice as it is, but I still don't feel really satisfied, and no matter how I try and explain my feelings, he either doesn't understand what I mean, or doesn't know how to go about it, or doesn't want to. Believe me I've tried to explain to him what to do. For me sex is a very emotional thing, and I need to express my affection and caring with it, and need received the same. And it would be nice if he went down on me, but he doesn't like it, and on the infrequent occasions he does, he seems not to enjoy it, so of course it does nothing for me. Despite the fact that I do pretty much everything he could want (and more) with complete enthusiasm, the fact is, you can't force someone to like something, and I kind of have to live with it. His solution to this problem was to suggest getting a female lover to fulfill these needs. Women seem to be more into this kind of stuff, so I guess it makes sense, and it seems to me that it was very generous of him to want to put my needs ahead of what he calls his "greed" of wanting me all to himself (though I feel this is a natural sentiment). Because I was not comfortable sharing him in a threesome, he made it clear that it was ok if my gf was "mine" and our relationship didn't involve him sexually. Well, I guess this is a solution in so far as it would alleviate my frustration and make me happier, but it doesn't seem to solve the problem at all. But since I'm not sure the problem is one that can be solved unless I get a new boyfriend, I was willing to go along with trying it. He knows all about my motivations, I'm not hiding any of this from him. And it so happens that I realised that I really liked girls, more than I thought it did, which raises new complications.

It is possible the situation will improve because our relationship is not at it's best. We are having to deal with some very stressful money issues that are making us have to question the suitability of being with someone who doesn't share some of your important values. Assuming we make it, I think he will be able to give me more of what I need when he feels better about me and us and things in general. Obviously masking these problems in another relationship, with whatever sex, is a bad idea. But it seems to be more than just this money problem underlying the sex issue, as this situation and my related dissatisfaction existed long before money issues did. I think the money stuff has just made it that much worse. It would sure be nice to chalk it all up to that, but that would be way too simplistic. And meanwhile, I feel like my needs are screaming out and still unheard, and it's driving me nuts and I feel so unhappy about it sometimes, and there's nothing to fill the emotional and sexual void.

All this random contemplation aside, I don't really understand what the point of your post was. I can either be with my bf, while in a relationship with a girl; be with him only; be with no one (the cynic in me is telling me that that's what's going to end up happening if I don't stop talking about this soon); or only be with some imaginary gf that I haven't yet met since clearly nothing's gonna happen with the girl I did date. I'm not hiding anything from my bf, he knows the situation, and recomended option 2, but I just have a feeling that it's a bad idea. So if I stay with him, I'm not going to really know how I feel about girls. But I don't feel that knowing is more important than my relationship with him is. It's not like I'm gonna get drunk and cheat on him with some chick at the bar, or not invest myself fully in this relationship with him (I've been very much "here" all along). So I don't know what you meant in your post.

But I will take the liberty to bitch that it's certainly frustrating to have the added issue of "not knowing" thrown into the mix, and sometimes I dream about kissing girls whose chests press up against my own all warm and soft, and they want me, and I love them and like how they feel and get all turned on. But then last night I also dreamt I was part of a clandestine agency whose purpose was to save horses from being slaughtered in the old Eaton's building and made into dogfood. I did this by releasing the horses from their tethers so they could be free to run away down main street in the middle of morning rush hour, and I knew if I was caught I'd be shot onsite. *Shrugs*

[The Pineapple Head]

The point of my post was merely to say that you're on this crazy journey of self discovery and the things that you'll end up learning about yourself effect you & your bf. Maybe this guy is the one for you & maybe he isn't & I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you would ever cheat on him, but he does deserve to know how you feel and what you need, so it's good that you try to communicate that to him.

He may be happy with the status quo, but if you're not, that's clearly a problem. I've never known anyone who has solved a relationship problem by either inviting a third party into their bed or hopping into someone else's bed to scratch whatever itch they may have, only to go home & snuggle up with their honey at the end of the night. At some point something will have to give. I know people in poly-amorous relationships, who are successful at it, but not everyone is cut out for it. I couldn't do it and I don't think it's what you want either... although I could be wrong.

I admire the fact that you want to find the answers and that you have the bravery to seek them out. It's not easy & some people spend their entire lives trying to fit into some cookie-cutter ideal of how they should be, opposed to accepting who they are or taking the time to figure out what makes them tick. It took a long road & a lot of pain to figure out what I needed & how to handle it all. You're going to hit some rough patches along the way, just don't get discouraged.

[RainbowVanessa]

Hey...thanks! :-)

(And hooray for pineapples!)

[funkyasian]

RV -

i read your posts and replies...and i think there may be a few things you need to look at from another point of view...

The irony is, my main reason for wanting to try and explore my sexuality with someone other than my boyfriend was because I didn't feel I was getting enough attention from him. I suppose sexually is what I mean. Not just frequency, which would be bearable, but in quality as well. I want my whole body to be made love to at least once in a while...but he doesn't really reciprocate, and often is uncomfortable for whatever reason...I would like sometimes to be more adventurous too. But this is not something he really likes

while i understand that men do not all know the finer points of how to make love to a woman however...from what you're saying, it actually sounds like that it's not just that he doesn't know the finer points, you are just simply not satisfied with him...

And I want to feel more spiritually connected, but it's just not really there when we make love most of the time. We lost our virginities together, and for me that was a really huge deal. I thought it was fairly important to him too, but he doesn't really even remember what happened. Maybe that's a guy thing, maybe I shouldn't take it personally, but it's really hard not to. It hurts me. And it seems to be indicative of our sex-life in general. I feel our sex life is nice as it is, but I still don't feel really satisfied, and no matter how I try and explain my feelings, he either doesn't understand what I mean, or doesn't know how to go about it, or doesn't want to.

again...you're not only physically not satisfied, it seems that he's not fulfilling your emotional needs either...i understand that losing virginity for a girl is probably more important than it is for a guy...however, this is something that seems to be important to you...shouldn't that mean it's important to him as well as someone who loves and cares for you? if he doesn't know how to understand you...does it seem like he's actually making an effort? or is he just letting it fall by the wayside and hope you forget about it?

And it would be nice if he went down on me, but he doesn't like it, and on the infrequent occasions he does, he seems not to enjoy it, so of course it does nothing for me. Despite the fact that I do pretty much everything he could want (and more) with complete enthusiasm, the fact is, you can't force someone to like something, and I kind of have to live with it.

a relationship is a compromise...it took a very long time for me to realize that. it's a give and take...what are you taking away from this relationship physically? and how much are you giving to him? i understand the argument that a relationship shouldn't be a balance sheet...but it shouldn't be a one sided give

His solution to this problem was to suggest getting a female lover to fulfill these needs. Women seem to be more into this kind of stuff, so I guess it makes sense, and it seems to me that it was very generous of him to want to put my needs ahead of what he calls his "greed" of wanting me all to himself (though I feel this is a natural sentiment).

are you serious??!! "honey, i don't like going down on you...so instead of finding a solution that's workable between us, let's get you a girlfriend"??!! you're right it's generous...a little overly so. from a completely uninvolved person, i actually questioned your bf's intentions...not the kinky my-gf-is-sleeping-with-another-woman thing...but what would make a man suggest his gf to get a woman on the side...??

From the rest of your post, it seems that you're having other problems with your bf as well. i understand that one problem usually leads to another, and another...and maybe this is your cue to bring everything to the table and say "these are my issues amongst other stuff that's been going on...we'll need to figure it all out if we are to survive this relationship and grow"

relationships are to be mutually nurturing. whether you decide to go forward with your exploration of the same sex, or you decide to abandon it in favor of your current relationship, i think there are many issues underlying in your current relationship that needs to be addressed. the more you leave them alone or only address other issues, the more these problems are going to fester and eventually grow to be out of control.

i'm not advocating you break it off with your bf or anything that drastic...please understand that, however, i figured you need to see things from the outside, and see what just doesn't fit...

again, sorry for preaching...hopefully i gave you something to think about...

~steph

[lollipopgirl]

Just to elaborate on what Steph said a little bit, I think certain things need to be worked out between you and your boyfriend before you delve into anything else at the moment. The things that Steph pointed out I had noticed too so it may be worth while to talk to your boyfriend about anything that may be worrying YOU about your relationship. (...I'm tired so I don't think that actually came out as well as I was planning...)

Anyway I also wanted to say that some of the advice that has been given here as general advice, rather than aimed specifically at something, have been very interesting to read and I know that they will become of great help to me in the future. So thank you for leaving such great advice.
Well before I turn this thread to much into it being all about me (damn capricorness) I'll shut up.

X-Katie-X

[RainbowVanessa]

I'd just like to thank everyone for their replies and their advice. All of what you guys said was a great help in me figuring stuff out. I'm pretty much over this woman now, I don't think about her anymore, and that's a relief. But the whole experience taught me alot about myself, and I have a feeling that that's not over. I think it's a safe bet to say that I'm definately bi to some degree, and perhaps when the timing is right, I'll get to explore that more. As for my boyfriend and I, there are many complicated issues involved, and it's going to take time and work to sort through them. But I'm a firm believer that there are forces and influences, beside the ones that we human generate, that tend to force things to a head, at some point, and that things always work out for the best in the end, even if we don't see it as such at the time. So we shall see. I hope that some of you who have read though everything brought up in this thread were able to take away something that maybe helped you too, somehow. I know I did.