Coming Out Stories

[PheeNiks]

My coming out story is a combination of sad and happy...then drama then happy again. I didn't come out to my family until I was 22. I didn't even come out to myself until I was about 20. After I had sex with this guy and it wasn't what I thought it should be. It didn't suck but I just felt something wasn't there. I didn't really know what it was. Then I became even more and more attracted to women in college. I graduated college at 21 and moved away. I was living on my own about 500 miles away from home. I needed to be alone. I was so depressed and had people asking me what is wrong and trying to help. I needed to help myself. No interference from family, friends. Just to be me and figure out what it was that I wanted out of life.



My family became more and more curious as to why I didn't have a boyfriend. They were like "You're pretty and very smart and I know at least a couple of guys that would want to get with you. But you turn them down. Why?" My answer always was "I don't know. Not my type."



Then I started talking to this girl online. And we really clicked. The thing about talking to strangers online is that they have no preconceived notions of you. I am more inclined to tell strangers more than I am to tell people I know. I figured "Well I will probably never meet her. So I dont' really care what she thinks of me" I found myself telling her things about me that I never told anyone (not bad things, just secrets). And she did the same. I had no idea she was gay when we started chatting. I didn't even know for sure if I was. Had attractions but never been with a women before. I wasn't comfortable with my sexuality back then. We had a lot in common and had some very interesting conversations. We really connected and things started to get more and more personal, 'til one night she just asked me if I though I might be gay. I don't even remember what prompted that question, but then she quickly tried to backpedal her way out of it. I was shocked at her bluntness but I answered an honest "I don't know, I may be". We talked for months and months getting closer and closer and I could feel myself falling for her and it scared the hell outta me. I tried to break it off over the phone and it was killing her. She was crying. I was crying. I was killing myself out of fear. Fear of what? I never put a handle on it. I stopped talking to her for about a week. But I felt like I was dying. I told her I wanted to give it a shot. And we went on to have a long distance relationship.



I told my sister and brother first. They were very supportive (I always talked about how cool my "friend" everytime I was around her) and not really surprised (LOL). I was sorta forced to come out; to my mom anyway. Well...I won't actually say "forced". It was actually my girlfriend coming out to her mom and getting kicked out that gave me the courage to tell my mom the truth (I was already living on my own) I had my own apartment in a new city for about a year and my mom was talking about flying down. I could've NOT mentioned my girlfriend or just pretended she was my roommate, but I told my mom. "Well if you plan on visiting me, there is something I have to tell you" She could tell by the tone of my voice that it was probably something she didn't want to hear. "I'm living with this girl." She got quiet for a second, then said "You mean a roommate?" I said "No my girlfriend." She let out this big sigh and I think she put the phone down for a bit. I was just sitting there. Then she went on to rant about why are you doing this? ("because I love her and I want us to be together") What did I do wrong as a mother to make you gay? blah blah blah. I told her "don't be arrogant enough to think that even this is about what YOU did. Has nothing to do with you. I just wanted you to know that if you were visiting that I will have a woman living with me. One bedroom apartment". Then she asked me if I've ever been with a guy. How do I know I'm gay. I told her I've been with a guy and I just know. I love this woman. She said well you don't have to worry about me visiting and hung up on me. She reacted EXACTLY the way I thought she would so I wasn't all that shocked. Since I was still "in the mood" I called my dad after my mom hung up (mostly to make sure he didn't hear it from her). I told him what I told mom and how she reacted (my parents are divorced). He was quiet also. Not disrespectful, but surprised and kinda upset at how my mom treated me. He reacted the way I thought he would too (I always had good relationships with my parents, but closer to my dad). He said I'm still his daughter and he will always love me, but he was a little "shell shocked" and needed time to absorb it. I felt better after I got off the phone with him.



My girl moved in with me about a month later. We got our new apartment and everything. I didn't talk to my mom for a loooong time. I would visit home (Louisiana) and see my dad sister and brother but not my mom. She didn't want to see me. So I was like "Fine". My dad, sister and brother met my girlfriend and everytime I went down there we hung out with them. They were so cool to her. I was expecting it to be a little awkward, but it was great.



Okay - so my girl and I are living in bliss in our apartment all happy and in love. But THEN about 1 year later I get a call from my grandmother (Mom's mom) out of the blue. And she just laid into me. And was talking shit about how I disgust her and stuff. I didn't even know WTF she was ranting about until she told me that my mom told her that I was gay and living with a woman. And she said I was going to hell and that she never wanted to talk to me again. Then she said I was dead to her and she didn't even want me at her funeral. I said "Fine with me" then she hung up on me. I was so pissed off. What prompted my mom to finally tell my grandmother after a WHOLE year? One of my cousin's came out to her mom and some of our aunts about being a lesbian. So now we got 2 lesbians on my mom's side of the family. There was all kinds of drama going on in my hometown (made me glad I was 500 miles away). My sister told my dad what was going down with my mother's side of the family. So he called my grandmother and lay into her ass about what she said to me. And then he called me at work to make sure I was ok. My dad has supported me from the beginning, I'm so glad for him.



I didn't talk to my mom for 2 years. I would bring my girlfriend with me back to La. for Thanksgiving and Mardi Gras to visit my dad, stepmom, and sister and brother. But I never went to see my mom. I decided to let her make the first move. Then one Christmas I went down to Louisiana and my mom wanted me to stay with her. I was reluctant. I have no use for the negativity she brings into my life. But I went. And she was actually polite and respectful and like the mom I used to know. The first couple of days we didn't mention my girlfriend or me being gay. Then one day when I was driving her to work we parked the car and had a little talk. She apologized to me for the way she had been acting and how she treated me. That I'm her eldest daughter and she will always love me. She doesn't agree with how I live my life but she accepts it's what I am. Then she kissed me on the cheek and went to work. That was such a defining moment for us. We've been close ever since. My mom and I haven't been this close and friendly to each other since I left for college after the divorce. She still hasn't met my girlfriend yet. I dont' know if she ever will.....

[atse28]

hey kittens,



thought I'd let you know that thanks to this thread, and actually physically putting it all down in writing, I just decided bugger it, I've just emailed my father and told him that I'm getting married! Gosh all of 26 (soon) and still worried what my parents will think!



This was his response:



"As for your marriage, just keep it low key and don't even tell you mum. It is very difficult for Chinese to accept - including me!! Do whatever you think is the

best for both of you and you don't need to disclose it."



Hopefully in time it won't seem like such an anomaly to him

---

Unofficially, I have to say I have no idea what you are talking about...


Officially?

Edited by: atse28 at: 2/18/03 9:41:48 pm

[slayer747]

yup. thanks for this thread indeed.



whew. hi guys, it's beem a lomg time simce i have logged on (2 months... eek!)



anyway, i'm completely out now. my last dilemma about my dad being a minister... well... HE WAS OKAY WITH IT! surprise! he said that i'm beautiful as i am and he loves me just the same. well, that's my update for now. i'm gonna check out the other threads.



i missed ya guys.

Edited by: Warduke at: 2/19/03 8:55:46 am

[kukalaka]

Missed ya too!



Good to see you back and good to know everything went so well

---

"... some nations are afraid of stepping up to the responsibility of imposing the will of the international community"

I guess it's just plain stupid to be afraid of war then.

[slayer747]

thanks.



nway, the other issue is with the friends of the girl i am seeing.



they don't like the idea of her falling for me.

that made her tell me to step back a bit.

...



help anyone?

part of forever is better than none

[Cipher]

slayer747, do you know if they are bothered by her being interested in girls in general, are thinking it's a "phase" that she shouldn't "waste her time with", are thinking that you are somehow "seducing" her into being gay, or have some other problem? The example attitudes I could think of all seem to be some form of ignorance on their part, but might call for different approaches by you (and her) depending on the case. She may need to talk with her friends and find out what their issues are (or if she can't ask them without making things worse perhaps think about what their problem(s) seem to be and talk with you about it), so that (hopefully in talking with you as well) she can decide on the right way to handle things. Hopefully their ignorance (or whatever) can be corrected, but if that is not possible it may be she would have to decide whether they are truly friends worth having. Hopefully things can be worked out happily for all involved.



For yourself, if she feels (for example) she would lose the acceptance of her friends if her relationship with you comes out or grows more serious or whatever, I think you should try to be understanding of her position (especially if you've kinda been there recently yourself, unsure about coming out to friends and/or family) and try to give her time/space/support to work through what she's facing. But that doesn't mean you have to let the attitude of her "friends" determine what sort of relationship you will have with her. If she feels she has to choose the acceptance of ignorant friends over your relationship then maybe things can't work between you. I hope that isn't the case, but I believe trying to be understanding will give the best chances of things working out in the end (as opposed to reacting harshly to her wanting to "step back a bit" which would tend to force a resentful choice and seems more likely to fall apart). I believe if you work together you can find the right answers, whatever they may be. She needs to be understanding of her friends, too (and obviously of you); they may be well-meaning but uncertain what this means for her. Or they could be homophobic fools (let's hope not). But automatically assuming them to be worse and irredemable doesn't help reach the best possible resolution (keeping your relationship happy and keeping her friends and your friends). You and she might be able to figure them out more specifically because obviously I don't know anything about them beyond your vague mention of the general problem.



Two basic examples I can think of are W/T in New Moon Rising, and Rory and Dean's breakup in Gilmore Girls season 1 (been rerunning on Sundays). Tara gave Willow the space and understanding to decide who she loved, Tara or Oz, and in the end Willow realized Tara was obviously more important to her. (It's not the same as your situation of course, but the same basic principles apply.) A few Sunday episodes back Dean told Rory he loved her (after a very sweet and romantic three-month aniversary), but when she reacted with speechless shock rather than blurt out feelings she wasn't quite sure of, he left in a huff and they essentially broke up. He didn't give her understanding for her feelings and time to figure out how she felt, he figured out that he "loves" her so he assumed she must know whether or not she "loves" him by now, too; and since she didn't say she loved him right then, she must not love him. It seems to me if he truly loved her he wouldn't demand an immediate yes/no on if she feels the same way, and if he had given her time she likely would have realized she does love him (judging by how hurt she's been about the break-up, she does love him whether she realizes it or not); instead he chose to break up thus ensuring an unhappy outcome no matter how she really feels. (Again, though the situation is different, the principles still seem to apply.)



In other words, I think it's better to follow Tara's example, not Dean's. Of course, Tara still let Willow know how she felt (including how hurt she was at the possibility of losing her), and I think that's a good idea, too. Your situation probably isn't as melodramatic as either of these, so it should hopefully be even easier for you and her to communicate and figure things out together.

[NewRuthRising]

Hi guys, I'm ruth. I'm 15 years old. Bloody hell, I'm glad I found this thread. 'Tis a tale long and twisted in the telling, but if you lot are willing to listen to me ramble, then I'll begin.



So, it starts when I'm about 6. I decide I like playing with girls as well as boys. It doesnt bother me. The idea of 'being gay' was never an issue with my mother (Who was an anarchist primary school teacher, go figure), so it never occured me that i was different. By the time I was twelve, I was examining my relationships with everbody I knew (Excluding family)to see if there was something 'odd' about them. Then my mother died. I was sent to live with my aunt Theresa. Now we need some backstory. Most of my family is Catholic, but my mother abandoned her faith long before I was born and I was brought up atheist. Theresa was Catholic. Her family was Catholic. I was sent to a Catholic school. All my friends were Catholic. After a few months, Theresa became abusive. Never physically, but she played mind games with me up to the point where I hated myself, her and most of the people I knew. I was suicidal, and the only thing keeping me alive was my best friend Claire. I had a HUGE crush on her. I managed to keep quiet for about a month, until she asked me why i was avoiding her. So i told her. We used joke around, saying we were gay for a joke, so at first she just laughed, then i said 'no really'. It took a while for her to believe me (My jokes can go on for days sometimes, i like to be convincing) She tried to be okay with it but we ended up having a massive argument on the field where everyone found out. After that we got our issues sorted and they were fine with it. But one night Theresa was keeping me up again, doing one of her all nighter 'you are evil' lectures. Then she asked me what my problem was. After about three hours, I was forced to admit to my cousin Katy who i hated with a fiery passion that I thought i was gay. There was no 'thought' about it but i wasn't gonna tell her that. So they knew. Whenever it was just me and the kids in the house there would be comments like 'Oh shut up and go find a girlfriend'. i was so tempted to reply 'I'm trying' but that would have done more harm than good so I restrained myself.



After a couple of months and some serious pleading on my friends part to stop me killing myself, i escaped. My family finally got me out from Theresa's clutches and now i live with my aunt Ann, who is soooooo much nicer. All my friends at school know. I was standing in the playground one day thinking 'I'm gonna have to hide again. It hurt so much last time. Fuck it.'



A friend said to me, 'why are you always talking about being gay?' so i went really quiet and just said 'Because I am.' It felt sooooooo good. But I'm not sure if Theresa told the rest of my family (I.e. Ann) so I just dont bring it up. Ann was on my website the other week where everyone knows, and she mentioned it, very casually, so i just said its a running joke between my friends and I, which it is. She just said 'okay but if you are you know it doesnt matter to us. We love you no matter what.' which made me go all warm and fuzzy. I'm pretty sure they know as last week i bought a shirt saying 'you are a very bad girl, go to my room', but they're cool. i think they're gonna let me bring it up on my own, so I'm kinda expecting the 'about time' response. Which is better than the 'I'm going to use this against you to make you hate yourself even more' approach which was working until a year or so ago. Now, even the class bully wont say anything about it, cause noone would let him. I joke about it with my friends. In fact last friday we had a video day and they started a popcorn fight with me cause i kept grinning every time Eliza dushku came on. I just said 'what can I say? she's hot' and they just laughed. No-one makes an issue out of it, and if I ever do have 'The Talk' with Ann, I'll be less nervous cause i know i have her support. It's still a scary prospect, though, so I think I'll wait until theres a gf in the picture. So, i've seen both sides of the story and personally, even with the abusive evil aunt lurking over me, I still felt so much better being out.



Actually, I feel so much more comfortable with myself now, its made me realise just how much ignorance is in the world, and how much of it can become malice. For example, I was sitting in German a few weeks ago with my friend Nicola, who knows I'm gay. She was listening to my tatu album, in fact it was the song 'All the things she said' which I call the lesbian song(Its become the theme tune for my gang of pals, which means a lot to me coz it shows me how much they support me). Anyhoo, there we were listening to the lesbian song, and I find myself in a conversation with her telling me how wrong and unnatural it is to be gay. Not with any malice, i hasten to add, just genuine ignorance. We debated for a few minutes, with some other people joining in by asking if Nicola realise who she was talking to. In the end we were all laughing hysterically, and I just said 'whats more natural than love?' she thought about it and saw my point. I still tease her about it, but she gets it, which i think is great. I was able to get past the stereotypical homophobic image that society has put in her mind and educate her about the fact i am still human, whoever i fall in love with.



Blimey i did ramble, didnt i?



Good luck to all those who are coming out, its worth it in the long run. At least you know who your real friends are.



Ruth.

-----------------

"He killed her, didn't he?"




"They don't have a word for what he did to her."

[Vampivy]

NewRuthRising says: “last week i bought a shirt saying 'you are a very bad girl, go to my room”



Me too!!! Only I’ve had mine for quite some time now. I remember buying it to wear it to a family Thanksgiving dinner. It was funny cause I’ve only confirmed my sexuality to certain people in my family. So those who knew got it and laughed, the rest either just found it amusing and smiled or simply ignored it.



I’ve come out to only those people I put on my mental list 13 years ago, which weren’t many. Just the typical people, a handful of friends, cousins, mom and well she told dad. Mom also shared the news with her two sisters and as far as I know it has never been confirmed by me or anyone else to any other family members.



I’ve gotten to the point in my life where I really don’t care if they know or not. I just don’t feel the need to tell them personally. So I just where funny shirts like that. This year I think I’m going with the one that says, “Tell your girlfriend I said thanks”. It’s subtle yet affective. Beats the hell out of the one that says, “I fucked your girlfriend”. My wicked sense of humor is going to get me banned from family gatherings sooner or later . Oh well .





We have a huge family gathering coming up on Mother’s Day in May and I was thinking maybe I should finally just bring a date and see what happens. Personally I’d be doing it to amuse myself with their reactions. I expect a lot of whispering to go on. Here’s why.



I come from a very Catholic Mexican family. And this is not to say that all Catholics are hypocrites, but the ones in my family are. They love their gossip. They love to talk shit behind your back. And since I also have family in Northern California which is connected to some here I’m sure the gossip will spread to there too. I have no problem with that seeing as it’s mostly my dad’s side of the family and the only person there that I give the slightest shit about already knows, so I really don’t care if the rest find out.



I think I can handle anything they say or do, but if it’s directed towards my mom or my brother, you see that’s where I have a problem. I have enough people who will back me up if things get intense, but if they attack my mom or my brother verbally or otherwise I don’t know how I’ll be able to handle that.



So I guess there’s my dilemma. I don’t have a girlfriend, so it’s not about wanting to be out like/or for that reason. I guess I just wish I could be more honest and out. Then maybe I probably would feel less like a liar. It would be nice also to know personally of other lesbians in or outside the family. I think that’s what it is, I just feel like I’m on my own.



Being shy about meeting new people sucks. I guess I just got used to keeping to myself that I forgot how to interact with others outside of my close family members. That is why I have yet to go into chat rooms.



Must. Work. On. My. Social. Skills.



In the end I guess I’m tired of being funny by wearing shirts that in the end express what I wish I could just come out and say.

I’m gay and I wish it didn’t matter if I was or not.



Damn, my only intention was to say that I have the same shirt as “Ruth” .

You see this is what happens when you create a comfortable forum to talk openly, full of very cool people .



Thanks .



Patty

[maudmac]

Oh, jeez, I hear you about the family issues. I recently had a bit of family drama. I have many gay cousins, but only one was around at this particular gathering. Someone asked my aunt what she thought about her, and explained that it was "all over town." Those people are stupid if it's only just now getting all over town because the two of them have been together for a hundred years. Anyway, my aunt said something like, "I have no idea what you're talking about and it's none of anyone's business anyway."



My mother and I were talking about that later and we were joking about what the family would do if they really understood how many of us cousins are gay. So I told her the only reason I didn't tell them all was that I was afraid of how they might treat her differently. I couldn't possibly care less about how they treat me, but I would hate for any of them to mistreat my mother or start squinting at her and talking about her behind her back. I don't even know how many of them would do that, but if it were just one person, I'd be upset and there would be a scene.



So I got to thinking, how often do we all hide who we are for the benefit of other people? Is that the right thing to do? Am I really protecting my mother by using words like "roommate" for my gf and simply answering "no" when asked if I'm married or have a boyfriend? Am I protecting myself? Am I protecting my family from something? If so, what, exactly? The drama? The gossip? Do I think they'll think I'm icky and I'm protecting them from the disgust that being around someone who's gay might make them feel?



It's nice to have a choice, but why would I choose to hide something that's a fundamental part of who I am? If who I am causes someone else to have unpleasant feelings, that's their own issue and has nothing at all to do with me. Right?



That said, though, we cousins are quiet and private while the non-gay family members pass around pictures of their happy families and yap constantly about their wives/girlfriends and husbands/boyfriends. So is our sexuality really "none of anyone's business anyway"? Heterosexual stuff is everyone's business, why isn't homosexual stuff? And does it really help us if people have that attitude, that only our sexuality is what is "none of anyone's business"?



Personally and politically, I think it's important to be out, if it's at all possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm just tired of feeling like homosexuality is something people need to be protected from.

---

We are words not quickly spoken, we're the deeper side of try
We are dreamers in the making, we are not afraid of why --Ferron

[kukalaka]

Amen.

---

"... some nations are afraid of stepping up to the responsibility of imposing the will of the international community"

I guess it's just plain stupid to be afraid of war then.

[yana]

maudmac wrote:

Quote:

---

Personally and politically, I think it's important to be out, if it's at all possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm just tired of feeling like homosexuality is something people need to be protected from.

---

For some reason, your post, particularly this part of it, made me think of Jane Elliott. She’s been fighting against racism against blacks since the late 1960s. She performed a very interesting experiment on her fourth graders called Blue Eyes Brown Eyes in 1968 (there's a description of it here, though it's not very thorough) in her small, rural all white Iowa town. Like many people who spoke out for black civil rights, she had a rough time of it, and so did the rest of her family. She spoke at my college during freshman orientation. I didn’t agree with everything she spoke about, but her story was very compelling. After her talk, I and some of the other students stayed to talk to her. Someone asked if she would do it again if she knew what the consequences of her actions would be. She just kind of paused and stared at that person as if they’d grown a third arm. Then she proceeded to say, in no uncertain terms, that she would definitely not do it. There was no way she would knowingly put her family through so much hardship and grief. Even though she’s changed so many people’s lives (and continues to do so), she would give it up in a heartbeat to protect her family.



Jane Elliott is an extreme example, but I think the reason a lot of us don’t come out (or not widely, at least), is that we don’t want to see our loved ones (and ourselves) get hurt. The fight for human rights is an important one, but most of us aren't willing to sacrifice our families and friends to it. Or at least I’d like to think so. I’d rather believe that than believe that most of us are cowards who want to blend into society and not disturb the norm in exchange for a quiet life.



Yana

We are one, the gurus say. Aye -- I might agree -- but one what?" -- Edward Abbey

[NewRuthRising]

And the fact that we do 'disturb the norm' is what is most irritating. Wouldnt it be great if I could walk out on the street and shout 'I'm in love with another woman' and only hear 'so what?' in return.



Anyway, on the coming out front, i've decided to step up my hint dropping process. My homepage is now PlanetOut, my background is the Pride Flag and I'm dropping anvils, as a character in this great show i used to watch before it turned crap said once.



Oh well. I may as well just say it. Nah.



Ruth

-----------------

"He killed her, didn't he?"




"They don't have a word for what he did to her."

[Bubblecath]

Hey Ruth!

Just wanted to say that i read your post about the coming out and it made me go all warm and fuzzy! Dunno why! i think it was really sweet and that you were lucky that most of your friends were so excepting!

You just made it sound cool.

no such luck with me! me and the closet are still fairly close buddies!

but i enjoyed reading your post so thanks!

cath

xxx

[Vampivy]

maudmac, I hear you loud and clear. That’s great and lucky you that you have so many gay cousins. I would settle for having just one. But as far as I know I’m the only one who’s come out as of yet. One other has express to having bisexual tendencies but she’s now happily married to a wonderful man. She has been the most supportive cousin of them all. She’s been to gay pride and gay clubs with me and enjoyed it. In fact she prefers gay clubs to straight ones and that's fine by me.



I’m extremely lucky in the sense that every single person I personally came out to took the news very well. But only with a few do I continue to express myself open and honestly. With the others it felt more like “were cool with the gay thing, but there’s no need to talk about it”. That’s the impression I got. This mostly relates to my mom and my aunts. They know, we just don’t discuss it or comment on it. That’s were I get frustrated and wish I could just make it a well known fact and move on, with the difference that it wont get swept under the rug after. We being the very catholic family that we are, we have to lay on the guilt extra thick and I could already hear it, “your grandmother isn’t going to be here forever, so why don’t we just keep this to ourselves”. That’s a common excuse for any secret to be kept secret in my family.



Sometimes I would love to just come out to the entire family for the fact that maybe that would help the others in my family that share the same secret to come out as well. I can’t possibly be the only one in a family of 13 aunts and uncles, 63 cousins give or take a few plus nieces and nephews. Did I mention were catholic? Wow, where would I be without my sense of humor? **shudders**



In the end you ask a lot of important questions, but this statement says it all for me as well “I'm just tired of feeling like homosexuality is something people need to be protected from.” Amen maudmac and thank you for your time and thought provoking words.





yana says: “Jane Elliott is an extreme example, but I think the reason a lot of us don’t come out (or not widely, at least), is that we don’t want to see our loved ones (and ourselves) get hurt. The fight for human rights is an important one, but most of us aren't willing to sacrifice our families and friends to it. Or at least I’d like to think so. I’d rather believe that than believe that most of us are cowards who want to blend into society and not disturb the norm in exchange for a quiet life.”



Ditto. I’ve endured my share of bullshit life throws at you sometimes and though unbearable at times, I’m still here . But my greatest weakness has been tested in the past and even now, and to complicate matters (in my opinion) by coming out to the entire family and risking my immediate family being mistreated in any way, well I just can’t bear the thought. Like maudmac said, “I'd be upset and there would be a scene.”





NewRuthRising, That would be nice. Hey maybe someday it’ll happen. We could all shout it out with you. **nice thoughts**

On the coming out front, do it at whatever pace suits you best. Better being your choice than be forced out. Good luck.



Patty

[slayer747]

CIPHER,



you said :In other words, I think it's better to follow Tara's example



as for your question, her friends got worried when i sent her flowers last valentine's day (it was already in a paperbag, to keep it a secret such as her request, but they found out anyway because when she said "thank you" to me, they suddenly came inside the room...) and the next day we went out. and one of her classmates saw us and the next night, she said it. that i should step back a bit.



that was what i have been doing. i am giving her what she wants. which is space. it is not the easiest thing to do, especially when i see her in the university. i do feel her trying to avert her eyes whenever i am around and she's with her friends and though i understand, it hurts so much.



i have told her about it, that it hurts and that it is unfair because we don't really meddle in her friends' lives then why should they. but she didn't give me an answer. i know she's scared, especially being in a circle of internally-homophobic people, but i guess all i can do is wait.



...



thank you, cypher, for your advice.

take care.

part of forever is better than none

Edited by: slayer747  at: 3/4/03 10:36:04 pm

[NewRuthRising]

Hey, glad i could help. It isnt working with Ann though. Either she's avioding the subject (Which I doubt), she's suddenly become stupidand/or deaf/blind, which I also doubt, or she's waiting for me to say it. Probably that one. I think I'll wait tho. If she already knows and is waiting for me to tell her, then I'm not gonna have an akward conversation that could easily be avioded.



Cypher: Good luck to you, my friend. My only advice is to wait and see. Who knows, it might turn out okay in the end after all.





If not, there's always the wonderful world of DENIAL! I have an emergecy cot in my closet, just in case!



Big love!



Happy pancake day!



Ruth

-----------------

"He killed her, didn't he?"

"They don't have a word for what he did to her."

[willowtarafan18]

Coming out issues...goodness do I need this thread right now... My life is a complete mess right now. So it kinda really all began to blossom this year at college. I go to this all girls catholic college but there are alot of lesbians on campus. I'm not really friends with any of them but they're all around. Over the summer I met this girl on line and it didn't shock me when I grew to have feelings for her and she for me. I always had said I'd keep my options open to both sexes but never really actually came to terms with the fact that indeed it could happen. She decided to fly over during my first month away at college this year to meet me. All my friends thought it was really odd that some girl was coming from overseas that I'd only talked to on the phone a couple of times and met from the internet was coming to visit. None of them knew about my tendencies. I told them she was a lesbian but I never told them I thought I might be also. My roommate is pretty insightful and asked if there was something more than friendship going on in this meeting and I said no because I was too afraid to say yes. Anyway, the girl came, we met and we had a good time but nothing came of it. She lived in other country and we both knew it wasn't really realiztic to try to have anything.

So that was the beginning of it all mostly hiding the truth and not telling anyone. Then I met this girl on the internet in december from this board also and we got along really well. We talked on the phone alot and chatted a bunch. in Feb. we decided to meet and we both had acknowledged we had feelings for one another. I kept my friends from the news again saying it was just gonna be a fun adventure to meet her since we had alot in common. After we met the first time the very next day she asked to see me the following weekend. I knew this was highly suspicious so I decided it was about time to tell my friends here at school at least about the feelings I had for her. I first told my good friend here at school Kim. I tell Kim everything and it was easiest to tell her because she'd mentioned feeling some tendencies for it too so we'd had a conversation once about admitting to her about the first girl who'd visited. She was really cool about it and I felt relieved but I knew I had two more really good friends to tell. My roommate and I were up late having one of our many girly talks when I decided it was now or never and I told her and she was shocked but cool about it. She's so cool about it that she'll point to girls or talk about girls and ask me what I think of them. But here's where my frustration came in...I had one more good friend I needed to tell and she was the hardest one to tell she's very in experienced in the love life category as it is so she doesn't quite understand. However I tried to get her to realize one night at dinner I really wanted to sit down and have a serious conversation with her. She mistook the implication as I was mad at her and the next time she saw my roommate a few hours later she asked my roommate what news I had to tell her. My roommate being a real gossiper basically gave the friend all the details except for naming names. I didn't know this and was all nervous about telling her until I went and began saying it and barely got a reaction from her except "good for you" which I knew couldnt have been her original reaction. I called her on it and she spilled that she'd heard from my roomie. So my friends here at college know now.

Next up were the parents. I didn't want to tell them about the girl I was interested in from the net for obvious reasons knowing they'd freak it was a girl first and second that i was crazy enough to meet her from the net. So I decided the girl and I'd only been out twice so if it became more serious I'd tell them all about her but I wouldnt say anything til I knew where we stood. Well we decided recently that the distance was too much and it just wasnt gonna work. I was really upset and ended up telling my mom all about it over IM the night it happened. I told her about meeting someone from the net and she flipped out about that until finally i said there was something else and she asked what so i said it was a girl and she basically replied "duh like I couldn't havge guessed" so my mom knows about myself now which is a relief. The problem is now though that my dad doesnt know and hes totally against that sorta stuff so I didnt want to tell him but my mom wanted me to. She then spoke to my dad and he said he didnt need to know about my love life unless there was a wedding or insurance was involved somehow. So I'm let off the hook for now about telling him which is gonna be so hard. I'm going to come out to my Aunt tonight at dinner because I need her advice on telling my dad and handling my mother since she says I've ruined our mother-daughter relationship by lieing and not telling her about the girl from the net and meeting her. So that is my long contrived coming out so far. Thanks for listening.



Shelly

[slayer747]

hi shelly.



good luck on ur coming out plans. i really hope and pray that it will turn out good.



you have our support.

take care.

part of forever is better than none

[wolfwynd]

Are we sitting comfortably.....so I'll begin



I thought I'd share my story in hope of a helping hand in this as I sorely need one right now.



I've known that I'm gay now since I was 12. I guess I've always known that I'm different but I never understood why. When I first started senior school I had this massive crush on one of my teachers, who was female. Since then I've had many crushes on women



I'm extremely shy and never like to admit to anyone even myself what I'm feeling. Apart from me, there's only 3 people in my immediate surroundings that know and one of them I told just a few days ago.





I'm scared of the reaction, I'm scared of being rejected by everyone. I have a hard time making friends and don't want to lose them but I'm scared of what they'll say if I do tell them. I'm becoming more at ease with my sexuality, I've been with guys and they do something for me but its not enough, its not what I need.



I've tried in the past convincing myself that I'm not attracted to girls in an attempt to try and be like everyone else, I watch W/T and relate totally to the way Willow feels in S.4.



My mum keeps thinking that I may be gay and asking me if I am, I deny it, but one of these days I'm just gonna confess my true feelings and shout yes! But not yet..I'm not ready for it.



I've just broken up with my girlfriend and I'm in the process of trying to get over it, its tearing me up. I'm scared because I've got no-one close to talk to about it. Maybe if I had a girlfriend things would be different, maybe I could tell my family, my friends becasue then if everything did go wrong I would still have someone. I'm so confused.



I will do it, someday, but I don't have the courage right now to



Keep the love alive..... + =



Wolfwynd



Edited to add: Whoo! I have a girlfriend and I'm very much in love! s Also most of my friends know and I came out to my mum and dad, neither are very happy bout it but least its a start. They haven't chucked me out which is a good thing, in time I hope they'll come around.

Edited by: wolfwynd at: 6/21/03 1:45 pm

[themagicpixie]

Wolfwynd, take your time. There's no rush to tell other people how you feel. The first thing to do is to be more comfortable with it yourself. You say you're becoming more at ease with your sexuality and that's what you want to be doing right now... there will be a time to tell the important people in your life, but right now you should just accept the way you feel and not be scared of it.



It is really difficult to find people to talk to, but the Kitten is always a good place to ask for advice.

[pioggia acida]

guess i have know since i was about 16 but it is only recently that i have actually said anything to anyone... i was really stressed about it for a while (after a party where i was somewhat drunk and got asked by some girl if i liked girls) and didn't know how to explain to anyone.



anyway i ended up telling 2 friends on MSN/email (one female from high school days, the other a very straight male i have know forever) and they both took it pretty well. then it was only tonight that i actually had to verbally say anything. i was talking on the phone to my friend (the guy) and he wanted to know if i had the choice of a guy or a girl who would i choose right now... when i answered he was like 'oh yeah i thought so, and have done for a while now'



as for the family... well i havn't actually gotten around to telling them cause i know that one side will take it really badly and i dont know how the other side will react... so i guess the parents are just going to have to wait till i am in a serious relationship and bring some girl home to meet them

if no-one wants to play with me then i am going to go to my room and play with myself... play by myself, i meant play by myself

[AmbersSecretAdmirer]

As a straight male, I guess I am in the fortunate position of never having to make such monumental decisions in my life.



When my friend Jakki came out to me I was a little taken aback but considering how she had acted through her life it made complete sense to me. I think it took me all of half-a-second to thank her for feeling she could trust me enough to tell me something so important.



It is a situation I have found that truly separates your friends who are merely there for show from those who truly are. True friends will accept you for who you are.



Family is different, they may take a while, if at all, to accept you. The only thing you can truly do is be honest. Give them time and space to come to terms with the news. If they truly love you, they will eventually accept that you as a person haven't changed, just that they now know a side of you they didn't before.



I know of parents who put their own sense of pride and their own happiness, ahead of their children's. There is nothing that can be done for these parents but to pity them.



To all who have issues, I can only say good luck. It is unfortunate that we stil live in a world where it takes incredible strength of character and courage to tell your family and friends that you love someone of the same sex, but those that have that courage have my admiration and respect. You have a courage and strength few will ever have. And for those who are contemplating coming out, listen to people on here, take comfort and strength from their words. You are not alone. EVER.

[slayer747]

just want to send my support to all kittens who need it. good luck guys.



as for the issues i am dealing now, it's mostly of my religion, which is Catholic. I know that I am gay and really out (when they ask, I answer).



I have been learning Cathecism for the past months and I am glad to have the knowledge that Jesus loves me, and accepts me as a sinner. And as for my homosexuality, I know I have come to terms with it and my faith, but you know, there always lurks this nagging voice inside my head that makes me feel guilty of loving a girl. Well, I guess part of that guilt is not really about me, but for my father. He is the master servant of this community which endeavors in spreading the Cathecism. And though I know that my father understands me (and my sister for being gay) I am a little in doubt about his reputation in the community as the some of the people that surround him are really big into the "homosexuality is a sin" movement as i would call it.



and frankly, some of these are getting into me. and after a very long time of being out, i am in doubt. however, i have faith that whatever happens next after this, God will still be the one guiding me. And if ever I change, I pray that it will not be out of guilt, or fear of Bishops that surrounds our prayer community. But because it is what I want for myself, and because of the knowledge that it will be the thing that will make me happy. because you know, accepting my sexuality made me open to everything, weird as it may sound, it brought me closer to people, and to God by knowing that my love for this certain girl is pure and that this kind of love can only come from one, which is God.



I just hope that somehow, people will understand that there really are some things that we cannot control, like falling in love with a person, be it with the same sex or opposite. And that there is no wrong kind of love. The only wrong thing is to deny what we feel and what our hearts desire.



whew! sorry for that long post, if you got confused, don't worry so am i. anyway, i guess it doesn't really matter right? all i need is to be open, and know that these things that I am going through is all part of my humanity. And I guess I should also brace myself for many more things like these. However, I have faith that one day, I'll get there, the final answer.

part of forever is better than none

[La]

for any Christian kitties out there struggling with reconciling their religion and their sexual orientation due to the bible's supposed condemnation of homosexuality, I would recommend What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Catholic priest Daniel Helminiak.



A quote from the amazon.com site: "Using the studies of Yale historian John Boswell (Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe, LJ 7/94), New Testament seminary professor L. William Countryman, and others, Helminiak examines the story of Sodom (where the sin was inhospitality), Jude's decrying sex with angels, and five texts-Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, Romans 1:27, I Corinthians 6:9, and I Timothy 1:10-all of which, he concludes, "are concerned with something other than homogenital activity itself."



Throughout the gospels, especially in the Gospel of John, Jesus' message is about love, and Jesus NEVER says anything about condemning homosexuality. If he is the son of God/God himself, then he's expressing God's feelings. It's important to remember that the ultimate teaching is one of love. God loves you, no matter who you are.



And all the kittens love you too

~La



What is the difference between a drunk and a stoner?

The drunk will drive through a stop sign while the stoner will wait for it to turn green.

[slayer747]

thank you, thank you, thank you.



and that was what exactly came into my mind after i posted yesterday. i know that my dad says that God understands human nature, more than anyone because He created us and even though God wants us to be good people (e.g. straight...) I know that He also wants us to be happy. And until I have fallen in love with this girl, I never really knew how much happy I could be. And of course, I never knew that I had the capacity to love someone so much, until her. And love like that can only come from Him. So I guess, that's one issue I have come to terms with because of God Himself, He allowed me to feel peace when I said these things out loud and because of that I am grateful.



love you guys as well...every single one of you.

part of forever is better than none

[Repost Moderator]

Originally posted by ab83613



May be someone can give me some advice.



I've been in a relationship with another woman for a year now. I was married fell in love with my best friend, had a brief relationship with her which ended (she got married) and we are still friends. I met my girlfriend and we started off as friends/occasional lovers and then feelings started developing. Since I was married and had always dated men but new I had feelings for women (figured out about 5 years ago) I assumed I was bi. After being in this relationship, I'm not sure I could ever be happy with a man. Still figuring that one out. Anyway, my family knows and my friends and no one has had an issue (or at least hasn't said anything to me) with being with a woman.



The problem I'm having is with my girlfriend. She's having a hard time dealing with our relationship. Over the last few months we've been fighting, breaking up and getting back together because she's not sure. I asked her if she was happy, if she loved me and wanted to be with me and she said yes and I was the best thing that ever happened to her and treat her better than anyone ever has. She's been with women before but has never had a relationship with them. she was married for 10 plus years and has to kids. I lived with her for 10 months and have since moved back out b/c of her issues. I'm not sure what to do. I want an open relationship. I love her and the kids but do not feel the need to hide from the world. Her friends know about us and so does her family and no one seems to have a problem with our relationship. No one but her anyway. It's starting to get better but I'm not sure she will ever be totally comfortable. I am. I'm thinking about leaving her because I am not happy but I'm not sure.



Any advice?

[kajo 2000]

ab83613: I'm afraid that I can't offer you any advice as I have no personal experience of a situation such as yours. But I want to pass on my support and best wishes to you. Hopefully, one of the other Kittens will be able to assist you though.

---------

"I want to be Byron... because I want to date young boys." Amber Benson

[atse28]

Ab83613



The only thing I can ask you is whether you think she's worth it. It sounds like she has a lot to deal with and whether or not you think you're capable of helping her through it or being patient and understanding enough to realise that you have to go through the tough part (the hell to get to heaven so to speak).



I hope it all works out for you.

---

Unofficially, I have to say I have no idea what you are talking about...


Officially?

[veronsmygirl]

hi

i think i can help you with this or maybe i cant but i think i do know whats wrong,youve got to understand where shes coming from,here goes,you said she was married before,but it didnt work out,am i right?the reason she wont come out and say shes gay bi or whatever is because she needs something to run back to if the two of you dont work out,let me try and explain, if she comes out and say yes im gay/bi and im in a relationship then the 2 of you spilt up shes stuck with the label as being gay,where if she keeps it like it is at the moment on the quite if you do spilt up she can always go back to being straight and the man who shes ends up with will never know nothing of you there fore it will make her life easier..phew thats sounds confusing but it really isnt ive been with my gf 8 years but when i first met her i labeled my self bi because i was so scared of coming out to everyone and then me and my GF not working out and then everyone saying i knew it was just a thing she was going through,it all comes down to how sure you are in your relationship you see if she tells people there gonna say how can she be gay/bi shes been married do you get me ,,you probably dont but hey i tried and i hope this helps

[Lost in blue]

I apologise in advance that this is a really long post, I don't even know if it makes sense coz I haven't read it through (so gonna regret that) so forgive me if it doesn't flow too well:



Firstly much love and support to my fellow kitties, it's good that we can all be here for each other.



I’ve been having coming out issues lately. I guess I’ve known on some level that I like girls as well as boys for some time. The thing that I always think of first when thinking of the “issues” I have is something my Mother said to me when I was younger. We were watching a programme called “Playing the field” which had a lesbian couple on. One of the girls came out to her parents and my Mum said she didn’t know what she would do if me or my sister had turned out to be gay. I was stunned, I mean I’m used to my Mother being stupid, I mean I was like twelve or something at the time- how could she have been sure of my sexuality when I had no idea?! But as I said I’m used to her stupidity, what surprised me was that it would be a problem for her. The thing is I’d grown up always thinking that being gay was no problem, my Dad’s brother is gay so I’d always assumed my family was completely fine with the concept of same sex relationships. At least I know my Dad is though. In fact I remember watching Dawson’s Creek with my Dad, it’s so funny how much my Dad loves that programme- tapes it to keep and everything, but that’s going off the point. What was my point?! Oh yeah, we were watching Dawson’s and Jack’s Dad was being a complete bastard about his sexuality and my Dad got really annoyed and said he couldn’t understand how anyone could treat their own child that way, and he said that he would love me and my sister no matter what, it doesn’t matter who we love as long as we’re treated well and are happy (god I *love* my Dad) It’s so weird how my Mother’s opinion caused me to repress my feelings and made me feel guilty at the slightest hint of them when I really can’t stand her. And yet my Dad who I love and adore completely gave me this huge support without even knowing it and yet it was her opinion that I listened to- it’s insane really!! My Mother has always been a bit of a bully, never physically just would tell me that I was fat/ ugly/ no wonder I didn’t have any friends (even though I did) that kinda thing. She got somewhat worse once I became really close with my best friend, nothing ever happened with us coz I was too in denial even if she did feel the same which I don’t think she did (she has a boyfriend now) Most people thought something was going on though and that’s around the time that my Mum got really weird with me. Anyway it wasn’t until last year when I left home that I slowly started to be more comfortable with being me. At the same time I also started watching Buffy coz my housemate has the videos and my sister had seen season 6 and wanted to see from the beginning so we decided to watch them all together. Although I kinda liked Willow a bit (Aly really is such a cutie) But it wasn’t until Amber came along that I was just like *wow* and denial just got more and more difficult. I mean I’d noticed other girls before that, Drew Barrymore for one, Aly of course and a few others but no one had affected me the way Amber did (and still does). I started watching ahead of my sister and housemate, staying up really late just transfixed by the girl. The very last thread of denial was snapped into shreads by “Once more with feeling” and *that* dress, when I watched that I actually said out loud to myself “God you are *so* gay!!” And then just laughed at how easy it finally was to admit to myself. Admitting to others however is still proving difficult. At first I wasn’t ready but now I’d like to tell those who matter. The only person that knows is my sister and it was easy to tell her coz she came out to me that she was Bi and I just said that I kinda am too. I’m not sure if she thinks it’s anything other than a phase though. The other day we were talking about favourite songs and I said about “Under your spell” coz I listen to it al the time and she said “it’s just a phase” I think she meant the song though, I think, I hope- ugh, I dunno!! I so have no idea how to even approach the subject with anyone else and even if I do find a way to begin the conversation I'm really gonna struggle to finish coz I'll get nervous, I'll stutter- my throat will go dry...god I feel so useless at times. I can't even talk, well I can just not when nervous and not when it involves my emotions and seen as this conversation would include both I’ll be twice as bad *sigh* I’m such a wimp, I just want to e-mail my loved ones but I really don’t suppose it’s the way to go, I mean I can’t really do that, can I? *looks hopeful* No, I know it’s probably not the best way to do it. Although in my defence I rarely see most of my friends seen as there at Uni and stuff so I’d have an excuse to take the easy route. I was contemplating either writing to my best friend (different best friend, not the one I had *those* feelings for) coz it’d be okay as writing to each other is how we became friends and I know she loves me no matter what and she’s good at advice and stuff. That or maybe e-mailing my step-sister as she’s one of my best friends and we e-mail each other with our problems, although I am seeing her at the end of this week so if I can pry her away from the rest of the family perhaps I should be brave (do I really have to be?) and talk face to face.



Ugh- I’m so useless!!! Sorry about how long this post is- guess I got a little lost in my anxiety babble there. I’m just gonna shut up now and ponder some more, or head back to the “crappy feelings” thread….no I think I need to just watch some Amber goodness and all will be well. Love to all my Kitties, extra hugs to any who are in need of them.





Helen