Question About Tara/Faith in Fan Fiction

[namaste]

Hello everyone,

I'm delurking for a minute, and I apologize in advance in case this is the wrong board to be posting in, or it has been discussed before. There's a question that has really been intriguing me, and I thought I'd put it to the writers out there.

Quite a number of the stories I've read depict Tara and Faith as either good friends or ex-lovers who remain close friends. I'm wondering why you (the collective 'you' that is the fan fiction writers) think they would get along so well. Considering that, during their only encounter on the series, Faith-in-Buffy was (to put it mildly) quite mean, and the depth of Willow's animosity towards Faith, I'm interested in why the writers believe that they would get along better in other situations.

It's actually very plausible to me that they would become close, and even have a romantic relationship, and I'm interested to hear how other people came to the same conclusion. Does it have to do with sexuality, or personality, or a presumably similar family history?

Then again, maybe it's because, out of all the female characters in the Buffyverse, the other options are Buffy (Tara/Buffy is unthinkable, at least to me), Dawn, Anya (good friends), and if we extend to Angel, Cordelia, Fred, and Kate - none of whom seem to "match" as well as Faith does?

Thanks again for letting me post, and keep up with the great writing!

[Chance]

I'm such a big fan of both Tara and Faith as characters. I think they're two of the best Buffy has to offer, aside from the obvious. I think Faith was a stroke of genius, and Tara is just too loveable.

I write them as ex-lovers who have remained friends... at least, I am currently. I love that relationship. The T/F relationship has so much to it, so much that can be explored. Tara can temper Faith, ease her out of her pain because Tara knows how it feels better than any of the others. And I think Faith would give Tara a certain degree of confidence. Faith is a sexy character. In my opinion, Faith exudes sex. I think Tara's character would be amazed someone like that would want her. As she grew more comfortable with the idea, it would help her self-esteem like W/T obviously has.

I think it's a meeting of opposites, light and dark. Good and evil. Those relationships are always the most fascinating. I think with T/F it's very ying yang-ish. I like that about them.

I'd also mention the fact that Amber Benson and Eliza Dushku have alot of chemistry together. It would be fun to watch a scene with just the two of them. (Y'know that, and WOW. They're both hot. Sorry, hormones, heat, y'know.)

I dunno, it's 5AM here. I'm sorry, I should be asleep.

Chance.

[tommo]

A lot of people tend to see them as a couple, or ex-couple. But I prefer friends, because I think Tara has the ability to see beyond the surface, which is what Faith hides behind constantly.

I'm not sure they work as a couple for me, to be honest.

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"She looked across at Willow, whose face was filled with light. She had never felt so calm and happy, and strong..." ~ Unseen: Door To Alternity

[xita]

I think it's become a cliche. I can see why people like the idea, mainly because people seem to generally think Faith is hot and so is Tara and they like to read about them together. However, there seem to be some conventions of F/T already developing. First even a F/T friendship involves Tara forgiving Faith. While I believe Tara would cut her slack, I doubt she would pursue a friendship with her if Willow was still very angry with Faith.

Second, i don't think that Tara as we knew her could ever handle Faith as her first gf. See the way she was, I think she would have been scared by her and would not have felt comfortable to actually be with her. See the tentative courting between w/t to know what I mean. It would have to be a completely diff Tara for that to be true.

And I am tired I think in general of the Faith needs saving idea. It's actually ruined B/F for me. I think Faith saved herself. She is in jail by choice. I'd like to read b/f story that takes that into consideration.

And honestly I don't like to read any tara with anyone else but willow story. same goes for willow with anyone else, even AU or before the relationship. Though I can understand those stories. I am in the minority with that though, only a few of us like that, hi brian, hi Garfield

[This message has been edited by xita (edited August 11, 2001).]

[Zahir]

In general, I agree with Xita--especially about the "Faith has saved herself." True, what she's going through is a process but its one she entered of her own free will. And good for her, btw!

My gf got involved in BtVS and Angel through me, beginning at the end of season four. Interestingly, she instantly thought Angel and Faith belonged together--because they can understand each other so very well.

Methinks Tara could indeed forgive Faith sooner than any of the other Scoobies. I also believe Willow would follow suit fairly soon. Her jealous reaction to Faith (which soooooo reminded me of Xander's reaction to Angel) I think largely stemmed from insecurity regarding Willow's relationship with Buffy. But Willow has gone through so much lately vis-a-vis Tara methinks she's outgrown her negative feelings about Faith.

Personally, I always rather enjoyed W/F fanfic...until Tara came on the scene, anyway. Hmmmm. They would make an interesting threesome...hmmmmmmmm...

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[The Rose]

I would NEVER put Faith and Tara together!!!!
I mean Tara has Willow, and no one can top that.

Faith is waaaaaaaaay too experienced for Tara
and Faith is TOO volatile. I see Tara forgiving her for treating her like CRAP but
not forgetting.

Also, it seems to me Faith leans towards men;
A LOT of men. She went after Xander, Angel and then she comes on to Spike while she was in Buffy's body. Look at the subtext between
Faith and the mayor.

[This message has been edited by The Rose (edited August 10, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by The Rose (edited August 10, 2001).]

[Warduke]

For my thoughts on the subject, read xita's post

[Wonko]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Rose:
Look at the subtext between Faith and the mayor.

---

The...father and daughter subtext?

Faith has always seemed to swing both ways to me (in fact I think that's practically canon if you look at the script for Five by Five.)

I've read fic that pairs Tara and Faith many years in the future after W and T break up. Faith is madly in love with Tara but T has never got over Willow, the true love of her life. Willow is often portrayed as insanely jealous, and often the one at fault in the split.

Just about every fic that pairs Faith and Tara is like that.

I'm not a big fan of splitting up W and T in fic (ironic, that is, seeing as I've done it.) I also think there are a couple of more...logical, dare I say...people to pair Tara with if you're going to at all. *Shrug.* Is this the point to say I've been rambling?

------------------
Words from Wonko
The MKF Appreciation Society - All Miss Kitty all the Time!quote:

[The Rose]

Wonko,
One classic line that comes to mind is in
"Dopplegangland" after the mayor buys Faith an apartment.

Faith: Thanks sugar daddy. (I am sure you know what a sugar daddy is).
Mayor Wilkins: Now, Faith I don't find that sort of thing amusing. I am a family man.

Also, Faith has never mentioned being with a
woman.

I also agree with Xita. I can't even imagine W or T with anyone else.

[This message has been edited by The Rose (edited August 10, 2001).]

[Wonko]

As long as we're quoting Rose, take this extract from the script of Enemies.

MAYOR (cont'd)
Well, replacing Mr. Trick was chore enough.
(off Faith's look)
Oh, don't worry. And drink up.
There's nothing "uncool" about healthy
teeth and bones.

FAITH
I don't do milk.

MAYOR
No? Oh. I know what you want.

He produces a box of powdered chocolate. And a spoon. Spoons a big healthy spoonful of chocolate into the milk, stirs. Stands back, arms folded.

MAYOR (cont'd)
Drink up.

Faith, looking uncomfortable, drinks the chocolate milk.

Faith may have used the term 'Sugar Daddy' (and yes, thank-you, I know what it is) but you'll notice how she was very excited about her brand new Playstation immediately after and how she'd been jumping on the bed immediately before. She always acted very childlike around the Mayor and he, in turn, always seemed to love her in a decidedly non-sexual way.

As for Faith swinging both ways have a look at this extract from 'Five by Five'

LOUD MUSIC gushing into the street. A FEW BARFLIES enter as Faith exits with an attractive WOMAN. We may not see her face at first, just concentrate on Faith, who is a bit wobbly. (NOTE TO DIRECTOR AND ACTORS: Mind the lesbian subtext -- keep it very "sub".)

FAITH
…I guess we could go somewhere
and talk… although I'm not much
of a talker… I'm more of a doer.

WOMAN
I think you might've misunderstood
my intentions.

We see the woman now. It's LILAH, from Wolfram and Hart. She stops talking. Faith stops with her, staring at her and leaning in close, backing her against a wall.

Anyway. It's not really important or connected to the thread. Also, you're not going to change my mind and I probably won't change yours either We'll agree to differ, okay?

------------------
Words from Wonko
The MKF Appreciation Society - All Miss Kitty all the Time!

[Kieli]

I really have to chuckle at some of the responses to this thread. Mostly because I seem to see the posters practically in thrall with Chance's new fic

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"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes

[FrenchRose]

Well, the reason *I*, as a reader, believe Tara and Faith are a good item - as friends mostly, but also as ex-lovers - well, it's entirely Ruth's fault. The first fic including Faith and Tara and their relationship was 4To the Edge' and it was so good, so well written and full of sense, that it became...fic-canon, in a way.*g* I've still to read a real bad T/F (friends/lovers) story... I mean, 'The Letting go' or Chance's 'It could happen' aka Stripper Fic (love that*g*) are two pieces of greatness.

Rose, who otherwise thinks just like Chance on this one.

[tommo]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Rose:
Also, Faith has never mentioned being with a woman.

---

No she hasn't. But that doesn't mean the subtext isn't there. Faith is a complex person and I think that translates to her sexuality as well. For her I think opportunity plays a great part in her power over others, including sexual power.

Plus, it was clear to me how in love with Buffy she was; whether sexual or otherwise.

quote:

---

Well, the reason *I*, as a reader, believe Tara and Faith are a good item - as friends mostly, but also as ex-lovers - well, it's entirely Ruth's fault. The first fic including Faith and Tara and their relationship was 4To the Edge' and it was so good, so well written and full of sense, that it became...fic-canon, in a way.

---

NOOOOOOO. Oh god I bow in great shame. However, in 'To The Edge', Faith and Tara were just outsiders who joined together in some kind of unwitting way. I never hinted at any sexual attraction between them, and even went so far as to have Willow being jealous (like she was over Buffy, I guess) and for Tara to completely dispel her fears.

I just thought Faith and Tara made a good friendship pairing, because Faith didn't have any friends, and neither did Tara.

Sigh. Hoist by my own petard, that's what I am.

------------------
"She looked across at Willow, whose face was filled with light. She had never felt so calm and happy, and strong..." ~ Unseen: Door To Alternityquote:quote:

[FrenchRose]

Ruth, don't panic, let me rephrase : in order for me to even consider the remote possibility of Faith and Tara as ex-lovers in fics suchas Chance's, for instance, *first* I had to believe that they would actually get along, that they were a good match. Well, you wrote them as an excellent match *as friends*. That became, to me, the canon Tara/Faith relationship : good friends, with an understanding that Will cannot, or doesn't want to, acknowledge, or if she does, well whe's just jealous Will. That's what I meant. You wrote the Faith/Tara friendship so well, that I can accept fics where they are close much more easily now.

Is this even more confusing or do you see what I mean ? In a nutshell : I never got any sexy Faith/Tara vibe reading your fic, don't worry, you wrote them just like you wanted to, your point was made.*g*

Rose, the french one, who's sorry about the misunderstanding.

[This message has been edited by FrenchRose (edited August 11, 2001).]

[namaste]

Wonko, if you don't mind sharing, I'm curious about which other characters you had in mind when you said there are other, more logical characters to pair Tara up with. (I'm assuming this would be aside from Willow.)

One of my wishes for this season, apart from W/T staying together and the writers not going so far with the dark magick aspect as to make Willow the Big Bad, is that Faith's next story arc involves some kind of resolution/healing with Buffy, Willow, and the rest of the Scoobies. Ideally, for me, Faith would be there before Buffy is resurrected, and she and Willow have a chance to make some kind of peace and form a sort of alliance against the demons of Sunnydale. Since Eliza's schedule probably makes that impossible, I would like to see something later in the season that has Willow and Faith, both now older and wiser, finally putting to rest some of the issues between them. And a scene between Faith and Tara, or all three of them, with everyone in their proper bodies, would be great too.

[JustSomeGuy]

Ok, throwing all ten kinds of caution to the wind, *if* Tara had wound up with *anyone* else, the only person I could see is Xander:
They both have that Parental Abuse thing going, they both view themselves as outsiders to the group dynamic, they both have self-esteem issues, and both are gentle souls with big hearts.
The big flaw in all of this, however, is that Tara is, well, pre-disposed to the Fairer Sex.
And you cant get any fairer than Willow!
Still, I think there is enough there for them (Tara and Xander) to become best friends, at least.
Guy.

[tommo]

*hugs Rose*

You're quite sweet, considering you're French.

------------------
"She looked across at Willow, whose face was filled with light. She had never felt so calm and happy, and strong..." ~ Unseen: Door To Alternity

[FrenchRose]

I try, Ruth. And you're quite nice yourself, considering you like S Club 7. *g*

[Wonko]

quote:

---

Originally posted by namaste:
Wonko, if you don't mind sharing, I'm curious about which other characters you had in mind when you said there are other, more logical characters to pair Tara up with. (I'm assuming this would be aside from Willow.)

---

Damn, I was hoping no-one would call me on that'cause just after I posted it I realised I was talking nonsense. Not that I don't think Faith and Tara fit together, cause I don't, just that I suppose there aren't more logical characters to pair her with. Maybe I'm just blinded by the perfection of W/T that I just can't see other couples

But I'll have a go...

Anya: I have to put her first because I've written Tara/Anya. The point of that pairing though was to show how perfect W and T are together so, maybe that's not such a good reason. I guess I can see that they have something in common - both Scoobie SOs, both uncertain about their role in the group aside from their relationship with their respective partners. If you can call that a reason, I admit it's not much of one.

Xander - To be honest, before I read JustSomeGuy's post I was only thinking of women which is terribly narrow of me. Of course the main obstacle for this would be Tara being as queer as black sunshine and Xander being not far off that himself

There's always Riley though - he's a lesbian

I guess I can't think of more logical pairings so I take it all back. I guess there's nothing illogical about Tara/Faith that couldn't be said about any other Tara pairing (that wasn't Willow.)

------------------
Words from Wonko
The MKF Appreciation Society - All Miss Kitty all the Time!quote:

[Zahir]

As the characters are now, I just can't see Tara with anyone other than Willow. Under other circumstances, I might imagine Willow herself with Xander or Buffy (is she was gay) or even Faith (a rather fun notion, imo).

But when you're talking about the future, well then there's more possibilities to play with. For one thing, what if either of them died? Not terribly unlikely, given how they spend their time.

Then, I can imagine Buffy or Faith becoming involved with the survivor--especially if one of the Slayers had been killed as well. Anya is harder to see--but not impossible. I wouldn't say it was impossible that if both Anya and Tara were killed, Willow might end up with Xander.

Back to the original question--I suspect if Faith had met Tara earlier, she would have either run over the girl or been startled to meet someone so genuinely kind. Might have done wonders for her, frankly. And I tend to believe Tara has it in her to forgive Faith, although she'd probably be terribly nervous around her at first. Faith herself--now--would likely apologize and wish her the best luck with Willow. That's my feeling, anyway.

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[Dr.G]

For my thoughts on the subject, read xita's post

And thanks for editing me in there, even if it is a day late!

And as for W/T/F maybe making an interesting threesome, even if that is meant in jest, I find that suggestion thoroughly *not* amusing.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited January 20, 2002).]

IP: Logged

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited January 20, 2002).]