The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe Willow & Tara Forever

by **Warduke** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 12:43 am

It's that time again, the old Spoiler Thread as gotten too big, so here's the new one.

Before we get to the spoilers, there's a message that xita wanted to say...

Ok, I want this thread to go over better than the last thread. So a few suggestion. If you are new to the board, LURK and get a feel for the board before you post. Certain things are not going to go well here. Understand this is a W/T board and that is the priority and that is what we care about. Don't like it? Don't post. People, let's wait and see what happens in 21 before you condemn the writers and burn them at the stake. Speculation is fine but repetitive speculation is not. If you have said your point, repeating it will not make it any more valid. I know we are all dealing but being repetitive is not the way to go.

Here's the important spoilers from the last one...

From Dark Sheep Mysterioso Ep 18 Entropy:

quote:

All right. I give this as a gift to those who so see it fit as one. I'm not gonna give you all of the stuff I have BUT, I will give you a very good part of it. But there is an EVEN better part/ parts of this ep. Anyway:
ACT ONE
Int. Uc Sunnydale Campus- Day
As students stream out of class, we see WILLOW, books in hand, leaning up against the wall of the building. Kinda forced casual. TARA comes out of class. Willow sees her, brightens, walks to her.
T: Hey
W: Look at you. All coming-out-of-class and everything.
T: (smiling) I do that sometimes. Usually at the end part of the class.
W: Right [ for some reason the script says Warren, I guess they need a reader. Ruth you might want to apply! But Willow does say this line]
They walk together. Slowly. Not rushing anywhere.
T: (pointing awkwardly at Willow's neck) How's your...you know, after the basement deal?
Willow swivels her head, testing her neck.
W: It's between a hitch and a kink. With a side of twinge. It's okay.
T: And Buffy's okay too? Enjoying the refreshing sanity and so forth?
W: (overdoing) Ha! Yes! Refreshing san--that's funny! (compensating soberly) She's okay. A little...freaked. I'm glad she didn't hurt you.
T: You too.
A beat of silence, then:
T (cont'd): So this is becoming kind of a regular thing. You and me after class.
W: Uh, I didn't...
T: only this time you stuck around.
W: Oh, um...various sounds of hesitation [again I believe this should have been in parentheticals]
T: She was just a friend.
Willow's caught a little off guard. But relieved.
W: Friends are nice!
T: You rushed off before I could, you know, explain.
W: Officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.
T: Unofficially?
Willow just grins a big grin. They walk in silence for a moment. Willow, still nervous, takes a deep breath, then:
W: We should get coffee some time. Maybe some day this week after class.
T: I am free tomorrow. [{I know we're all cheering right now.}]
W: You could, you could bring your friend.
Tara's actually a little thrown by this.
T: I wasn't gonna--I mean, if you have a friend-- [uh oh! But alas:]
W: No! I'm, oh, I'm friendless.
T: Yeah, yeah. No friends--I mean, I have friends...[sadly I wasn't her friend ]
W: Many dear friends, yeah, but--
T: Coffee.
W: With us. Who are...just friends.
Eventually later they go to the Espresso Pump and Anya shows up and ruins their Coffee date so to speak. I have more info, but I think this is good enough for now. I'm sure someone else will have the info that I am NOT going to post at this time. Too much of a good thing can kill you!
For I am Dark Sheep Mysterioso. May all lesser sheep bow before me. And on a personal note, you will very much like the way this episode ends.

And here's the end which DSM was talking about...

quote:

Willow's bedroom
Tara: Things fall apart, they fall so hard. (Tara is standing in the door way.)
Willow: Tara.
Tara: There's so much to work through, trust has to build again on both sides,
you have to learn if you are even the same people you were, if you can fit in each other's lives, it's a long and important process and can we just skip it, and can you just be kissing me now?
Willow, searches Tara's face, did Tara just.
Yes.
Tara stares back nervous but sure.
Willow stands as Tara moves to her.
They kiss passionately, they interlock fingers, holding on as tight as they can, not letting go they keep kissing, it is intense, it is passionate, and it is above all else, love, truly and forever.

Spoilers from by AnGelX http://www.angelicslayer.com/tbcs/spoilers.html ...

quote:

Entropy
Ep: 18.
NEW! Having accepted the offer to become a vengeance demon again, Anya attempts to curse Xander for the pain he caused her...but she can't do it herself. Instead, she secretly enlists the help of someone else and it doesn't go how she expected.
NEW! The Trio have been following the Scoobies everywhere they go with hidden cameras. When one camera is discovered and the rest are traced, what some characters see on video proves to be devastating.
NEW! Buffy tries to spend quality time with Dawn to make up for her violent actions in "Normal Again" (if you consider trying to kill all her friends violent), but Dawn's idea of time well spent is the dangerous world of patrolling.
NEW! Buffy confesses to Dawn about her relationship with Spike and after an odd turn of events, Xander and Anya find out as well.
NEW! Dawn's stealing is readdressed.
NEW! After some sweet time spent together after class and a during coffee date, Willow and Tara do get back together and make with the major smoochies.
NEW! The Trio steal a disk needed for one of their upcoming big evil plans.

And here's more from ep 18 by AnGelX...

quote:

Here's that scene I mentioned from 18. The "coffee date."
ESPRESSO PUMP
Tara and Willow sit across a table from each other with coffee and scones. Comfortable, happy.
TARA
Okay, wait, it was under her wig?
WILLOW
It was this thing, and it came out from inside her head.
TARA
That's disgusting. What did it look like?
WILLOW
Well... let's put it this way. If I wasn't gay before...
TARA
Gah. And this was after the invisible ray?
WILLOW
Yes.
TARA
Okay, I go away for a couple of months...
WILLOW
Oh, did I tell you about the demon eggs?
TARA
See, now I know you're just trying to make me jealous.
WILLOW
So, what, no rollicking adventures in the dorms?
TARA
It's not the same. It's not like living in a house full of family or sharing a room with someone you...you know...
WILLOW
Are friends with?

Couple of lines from later on when they're talking with Anya...
TARA
It's not really so much about hating the men.
WILLOW
We're more centered around the girl on girl action.

Wish there was more to give... but that's pretty much it. There are a few other lines, but nothing much. If I find out anything about 19 with W/T, I'll let you know. It should be all happiness. Also, if I find out that the info I have is wrong, I will personally throw the party.
-Michelle

And finally, the bad news from AnGelX... Please accept the following spoiler. It is fact not a rumor. Deal with the eventuality but do not discuss the validity of the following spoiler

quote:

Hi.
I know I don't post here much anymore and I'm sorry that this post has to be the way it is. Especially now after you got such good news about W/T. But, I promised to say what I knew about Tara and Willow when I knew it and I figure I owe it to the board and other Tara supporters to tell you first. I know it is no consolation, but I am very sorry this is the news I have to bring to you. Fair warning, the following spoilers are very big.
*
*
*
*
Unfortunately, the character that does not survive is Tara. It is accidental, but she is killed by Warren who intended to kill Buffy. For those who don't want to know, I'm not going to get into details of how it happens. Willow tries to revive her, but because Tara is not taken away by mystical powers, Willow does not have what it takes at the time to bring her back. Consequently, this leads to Willow's return to magic and it's not a change for the good. Motivated by rage, she becomes consumed with dark magic and goes out on a rampage to seek revenge. If it helps at all, Warren suffers horribly at the hands of Willow for taking Tara's life.
I wish I had a way to make it better, but I can't. I will do whatever I can to find out if this is somehow reversed in later episodes. The events of 20 leave a lot of devastating storylines out in the open and I am hoping that everything gets reversed or corrected or something by the end of the finale. Right now, I'm afraid that I don't have anything on the last two episodes, so I have no idea what the writers have in store. In the case that I do find something out, or if I hear of any reappearance of Tara in any form or a turn for the better for Willow, I will try to let you know.
Again, not that it means anything, but I am really sorry. I wanted so badly for the information to be false and this was the last thing I ever wanted to post here. I hope I'll have something positive and wonderful to report to you later. You already know about the goodness in 18 and 19 should have a lot of W/T goodness as well, although I don't have anything specific to report to you right now. There is another happy scene between Willow and Tara in 18 that I don't think has been posted (the coffee date)...if it would help any, I could post it here. But maybe it's already been shared.
If you have any questions about what happens, I will do my best to answer them based on the information I have. You can contact me privately via e-mail, if you'd prefer.

-Michelle

And this post by xita...

quote:
I have lived in fear of this day for months. I came home each day and wondered if today was the day, I'd open the board, turn on yahoo and be flooded with the news.
The first thing I want to make clear is do not shoot the messenger. AngelX has been nothing but kind to us. I have asked her to post this here so that you guys know that it carries as much weight as anything AngelX has revealed all year and for us to be the first to hear it in the mildest terms possible. If you want to question the validity of the source do not involve AngelX has she has nothing to do with that. I know that we have at times have had conflict with certain spoiler providers but it was never with the spoiler but the attitude that came with it. We were trying to be forced to believe it without any evidence. And it is our right not to believe, or to live in denial or to do whatever we want.
We must be allowed to feel our feelings. This is terribly shocking, if true, if allowed to remain. I don't begrudge people their pain but I just want it to stay here in this thread. There are unspoiled (poor souls) people and it is their choice to stay that way. Part of me wishes I didn't know because I could then enjoy the glory that is ep 18, the ultimate shipper episode. And I will try to enjoy that, I have waited for that and I will have that. And I will also have w/t love. Because nowhere in this is their love betrayed. And I can never feel bad for having shipped these gals because it was all about the love to me. And no one can take that away from me.
I hope that certain people can avoid pettiness and not come to our board to gloat or celebrate. Any such post will cause immediate deletion and banning. I also suggest you stay off other boards, and I will understand if you need to leave this one as well. But know that at least here you will be with people who understand your pain. And we can get each other through this as best we can.
Personally, I have gone through several stages of grief and denial. I can't be sure this will air, and none of us will know till it does. I can't be mad at the TPTB for this yet until I see it played out. Till I see what is coming in ep 21 and 22. Then I will have all kinds of reactions. My biggest concern is that we hold it together. We have a great community here that has been built for over 2 years and I would hate for us to self-destruct over this potential storyline. Let's support this as we try to understand and process this information.
I'll be in chat all day today if people need to come and chat. yahoo IM: xita, write me xita@xita.org

And this post by len...

quote:

Thanks to Angel X for telling us here first before she posted to her own board. This is terrible news, if true, and I've been thinking about this all night. (Angel X agreed to hold off for a short time)
Grief isn't logical. There's no way to tell someone that they ought to feel this way or that, more for the passing of their grandmother than the passing of their cat. I can tell myself "It's just a TV show." and "They're imaginary." and "Get a life.", but that doesn't make it hurt less. Not for you and not for me.
I love Willow and Tara as a couple more than I have ever loved any characters on TV, and I've watched a lot of TV. Through my attention to them, I've met all the wonderful Kittens I've come to cherish and call friends these past couple of years. And now I'm preparing myself to grieve.
I say preparing myself, because it hasn't happened yet, and I don't think it will quite hit me until I've seen it on screen. And because I hold out a hope that these spoilers are false, or that my understanding of them is incomplete, or that there's a twist I just don't know about. But my eyes are clear. We don't always get what we want. This could all be true. So I prepare myself for the worst.
The thing I hold onto, the thing that prevents sadness and anger from welling up in me and shutting me down is the small comfort of knowing what this storyline, this relationship has meant to so many people, and the feeling that its good effects don't end just because it ends. If this all turns out to be true, if Tara dies, she won't die out of some self hating loneliness. She won't die because of "the horror" of her gayness. She won't die because of the hate of the world, just the evil of one twisted person seeking his own agenda. And if it happens, when it happens, the end comes with Tara and Willow reconciled. Loving each other, back together. And anyone who ever watches or writes about Buffy from now on will know it and see it and acknowledge it. It's television history. It's helped people. It's opened some eyes. It's important.
I don't know all of you equally well. But I love this community, fiercely, and I hate to see it in pain. I hope we can hang together and comfort each other as we absorb this news. Right now, I mostly feel sadness. I know some folks will feel anger, and I can't tell you not too. But please don't attack Angel X. She's a real person, a woman named Michele, she's been a friend to the moderators and a friend to the board, this grieves her too and she's trying as best she can to see if there's any other information that changes things. And while the death of Tara means the most to us as Kittens, if this information is true, it represents a very, very dark group of episodes all around, the whole show is tossed on it's head. There will be other people, other shippers, other boards upset by the things that happen, and I hope that we don't attack them either, they don't control who lives or dies.
It's posted in the link at the top of the page, but my email address is l_mccain@hotmail.com, and my Yahoo IM name is Hugin_len, if folks want to talk but don't feel comfortable for whatever reason, feel free to write privately. We can get through this. Help each other. Thank you.
-len

New spoilers from AnGelX http://www.angelicslayer.com/tbcs/spoilers.html ...

quote:

Entropy
Ep: 18.
NEW! When Buffy and Spike run into each other while on patrol, they chat and Spike again raises the issue of Buffy confessing to her friends about her "relationship" with him. Although she doesn't want to, Buffy's confident her friends will get over it since they dealt with her trying to kill them.
NEW! After discovering the camera planted at Buffy's house, Xander suspects Spike is behind the spying and Buffy confronts him on the issue. He isn't responsible, but his anger towards Xander only increases when Buffy seems to actually believe her friend over Spike.
NEW! Unable to curse Xander with the help of other Scoobies, Anya goes to someone who actually hates Xander: Spike. Unfortunately though, her efforts to get him drunk and trick him into wishing Xander bodily harm take a turn for the twisted and the two very drunk demons end up trying to sooth their broken hearts by moving on...with each other. What the two don't realize though is that a hidden camera in the Magic Box catches the whole event on camera, allowing the entire rest of the gang and the Trio to witness it.
Seeing Red
Ep: 19.
NEW! The Trio do something that leads to Jonathan and Andrew getting arrested. Warren on the other hand avoids being caught and instead begins his solo career. If you doubted he was evil before...you won't by the end of this episode.
NEW! Spike locates Buffy and tries to make her "feel" again, but ignores the fact that she isn't interested. Buffy overpowers him and makes it very clear that he went *too* far, which awakens Spike to the reality of the situation. He acts of his own free will, but he is led by emotions and his intentions are not to hurt her.
Villains
Ep 20. Writer: Marti Noxon
UPDATED! One sweeps episode... lots of drama. The lives of two Scoobies are gravely endangered and a big bad is unveiled.
NEW! Spike shows up in Africa where he puts his life on the line to get the chip out. He meets with a demon and confidently agrees to take on whatever challenges the demon offers as long as he gets the chip removed if he wins.
NEW! With so much danger surrounding the gang, Buffy takes Dawn to stay with Spike, but instead encounters Clem crypt-sitting for the vampire and learns that Spike left Sunnydale for a while.

And finally, there's AnGelX's Extra Spoilage link.

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited March 16, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 18, 2002).]

IP: Logged

GODisTigger
Sassy Eggs

Posts: 725
Registered: May 2001 posted March 16, 2002 02:50

:: frolics in the new thread ::

edited to add: because I'm totally smashed

D

------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.

[This message has been edited by GODisTigger (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

Corinthian
Doll's Eye Crystal

Posts: 74
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 02:58

It's a new thread, but the Everything's Gonna Be Okay PARTY bus is still a rockin'! We've got swank tunes, more tequila than you can shake a wet ferret at, chocolate a'plenty, snacks, a disco ball, plenty of space to dance and a luuuuvre coach in back if you're feeling smoochy with that special someone. So flag down Starfuct, who began the bus and is driving us to bliss thru to the end of S6 with hopes and dreams of Willow & Tara goodness!

[This message has been edited by Corinthian (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

was recovering lurker
Floating Rose

Posts: 37
Registered: Nov 2000 posted March 16, 2002 03:12

Aynaia, I'm curious, how does TR foreshadow Willow's return to magic?

IP: Logged

aynaia
Blessed Wannabe

Posts: 3
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 03:18

I just wanted to reply to something at the end of the last thread. I have seen nothing wrong in any of the comments made about unregistered posters here. The bashing of themes on theme related boards is small-minded & intentionally cruel. In cases like this W/T board where these characters have captured our hearts & become as loved almost like a member of your family the bashing is just unforgiveable. If it's not what you like then go to one that you do but respect someones feelings when you are a guest in their home.
I have posted here a couple of times & never had anything other than friendly sincere responses from the members of this board so no offense was taken when speaking of trolls.
I am a straight (as far as I know anyway), thiry-something married woman, who happens to believe that the W/T relationship is the most beautiful, pure, & honest relationships on television. I believe this because they were written this way, written as true soul-mates. It really pisses me off that I come over here to try to help keep hope alive & there are people actually coming here & making it that much worse with childish & hurtful remarks.

I would just like to tell all you kittens that W/T isn't just supported & loved by the lesbian community, there are a lot of other shippers on other boards that are just as upset at the thought of losing Tara or Willow or their relationship as you are. I appreciate the kindness & friendliness that has been shown to me each time I have been here, thank you.

quote:
Originally posted by was recovering lurker:
Aynaia, I'm curious, how does TR foreshadow Willow's return to magic?

Well I actually probably shouldn't have put that one on the list because that was just my own personal take on the fact that even though she knew the consequences of casting that spell she did it anyway. Tara had already pointed out about how hurtful it was for her to invade her mind like Glory had & how it made her feel yet Willow named Buffy & Tara in the spell to wipe their minds clean. I don't think that could really be classified as foreshadowing but more of an opinion based on the fact that she thought she could get away with something she knew was hurtful & very sensitive to Tara.
Sorry for the confusion, sometimes my fingers kind mess up the sense my brain thinks it is making.

[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

Rally
Cool Monster Fighter

Posts: 260
Registered: Dec 2001 posted March 16, 2002 03:31

quote:
Originally posted by aynaia:
I just wanted to reply to something at the end of the last thread. I have seen nothing wrong in any of the comments made about unregistered posters here. The bashing of themes on theme related boards is small-minded & intentionally cruel...I appreciate the kindness & friendliness that has been shown to me each time I have been here, thank you.

Aynaia,

It is a simple matter of do unto others...
We are a community here, and we have one very simple, very adamant goal...the W/T loving.
No one is expected to agree with this or support this, but if you want to post here, then you damn well need to respect it.
Kittens do no maliciously post on other boards, exalting in their misery.
We simply ask the same in return.
There is nothing against unregistered posters, some have their reasons for not registering and post very nice and insightful posts like yours.
But as a rule, most trolls do post anonymously, cowardly. They also will debate you to death about how they are right and you are wrong.
But if there is a rule for this board, it is that W/T are destined, it is love truly and forever.
So for those who choose to not feel that the preceeding statement is true. They are free to not post and cause dissention in an otherwise very warm and friendly community.

------------------
No, please. I mean, tell me if I said something wrong otherwise I know I'll say it again. Probably often and in public.

IP: Logged

Blackthorn
Blessed Wannabe

Posts: 3
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 03:43

Oh joy! My very first post here!

I mainly wanted to post regarding what seems like a lack of reason for Tara's death. If we go back to the beginning of the season where Willow casts the ressurection spell, I still don't feel that Willow has yet faced the consequences of playing with the death. Sorry if this ends up sounding garbles (still trying to figure out how to say it.)

Mainly looking at Willow and Buffy. Beginning of the season - Willow in angst over wanting Buffy back. Casts spell and gets Buffy back. Buffy comes back very unhappy, yet Willow has no idea and is overjoyed to have her best friend back. Also in the beginning of the season, Willow and Tara in love and happy to have each other.

Through the progression of the season, Willow and Buffy have slowly crossed paths on the emotional happimess or sadness state. Buffy grows more stressed and depressed. Willow begins to abuse magic even more eventually losing Tara from it. Mid-season we have Buffy in an unhappy relationship with Spike, and Willow is sadly alone.

Now, by Normal Again, Buffy finally makes her choice to live. I think it's her big turning point in the season to start being happy that she's alive. Willow and Tara by now are starting to get close to makng up (YAY!!!). However, Willow still hasn't paid her price. Yes, she had to swear off magic, and she lost Tara briefly. But that seems more of a return for all the sadness she inadvertantly caused Buffy by bringing her back. Still hasn't paid the price for taking a matter as important as death into her own hands.

My point - I think the whole reason Tara dies (and even worse after Willow and Tara have some happy joy joy making up sex) is what a powerful price would be losing the one you love for receiving your best friend back? The two most important people in Willow's life are Tara and Buffy. She can't just get one back and have everything by the laws of balance. So towards the end of the season, we have come full circle in a sense. Buffy starts to Live, and Willow is back to the pain of loss.

Of course Willow is going to go hellbent. She has ever reason to. Love and emotions don't understand reasons. So by the end we have Buffy trying to bring Willow back from the edge just as Willow was trying to bring Buffy back in the beginning.

How it will play out, I have no idea. I definitely want Tara back. She and Willow have been a shining example of true love. Love that doesn't consider gender, background, or what others think. It's what love should be. It shouldn't matter what the other person is, only who they are. Tara is one of my favorite characters. She's the most innocent, sweet, forgiving person on the show. The world would be a better place if more people were like her. But I must say that if they do bring her back it better carry heavy consequences. Otherwise, her death would be meaningless. The would be no lesson.

Okay, I'm going to go in my corner now and wait for the "Everything's going to be okay" Bus to pull up. Free Hershey's Kisses and Hugs for everyone! We need more chocolate to boost the mood!

[This message has been edited by Blackthorn (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

shellybean
Cool Monster Fighter

Posts: 275
Registered: May 2001 posted March 16, 2002 03:52

I don't think any of us see a reason to kill Tara off Blackthorn. It just doesn't make sense and the irritating thing is that it just seems like a means to an end. It feels like the only reason she's being killed is to push Willow over the edge, which it basically is. I got SO depressed after reading the spoiler so I'm just gonna hop onto that 'everythings going to be ok' bus and hope for the best!

------------------
Willow: "Besides, spells going awry, friends in danger...I'm really nothing special."
Tara: "No, you are"
Willow and Tara's first real conversation - "Hush"

"Hear that baby? You're my always"
Willow to Tara - "Tough Love"

"HEY! You're gonna back off! She said no and thats it, you're not going to make her do something that she doesn't want to. And if you try, you're going to have to go through me. Understood?"
Tara standing up for Willlow and being the protective ex and bad ass - "Older and Far Away"

"Hi Tara, How are you? I was wondering if maybe you want to go out sometime? For coffee? food? kissing and gay love?"
Willow practicing asking Tara out - "Normal Again"

IP: Logged

Rally
Cool Monster Fighter

Posts: 260
Registered: Dec 2001 posted March 16, 2002 04:10

quote:
Originally posted by Blackthorn:

My point - I think the whole reason Tara dies (and even worse after Willow and Tara have some happy joy joy making up sex) is what a powerful price would be losing the one you love for receiving your best friend back?

Ok, once again Bambi be damned. The entire point of speculating on why Tara dies at this point is mute. Why because we do not know 100% if she dies a senseless death or not.
It seems senselss but we do not have comfirmation of this...we also do not have comfirmation that she dies because of some bloody price to pay over Bambi or whatever.
Facts, we know Tara dies. Fact, we know this pushes Willow into a deep dark corner in her life (character arc). Fact, we do not know anything beyond this.
The season is about growing up, dealing with issues of growing up etc. Senseless death and trying to make excuses for a senseless death are not about growing up but about denial.
All I am really saying is: "we need to look at the facts...break it down...because I for one..."

We just do not have enough information at this point to:
a) state it is a senseless death
b) claim it is part of joss' evil master plan to make Willow suffer
c) assume we know what is going to happen

Spoils we have, the truth, we do not have. Patience, thats what Ruth keeps telling me, we need to be patient and take this in stride.

------------------
No, please. I mean, tell me if I said something wrong otherwise I know I'll say it again. Probably often and in public.

[This message has been edited by Rally (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

Blackthorn
Blessed Wannabe

Posts: 3
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 04:14

I don't like it the idea that she will. Hell, I want Tara and Willow to live happily ever after (and I'm praying that by the end of S6 and S7 they are.) Just meant that, if this season is about "growing up", what's the hardest lesson in that theme? Dealing with the consequences of your actions. Learning to handle them when the parents aren't there to cushion you from them anymore. So, if that's the theme this season, it could give a bit more explanation into why Tara dies beyond just some plot device. But, hey, I could be all wrong hehe...just my theory.

IP: Logged

Still Waters Run Deep
Cool Monster Fighter

Posts: 274
Registered: Jul 2001 posted March 16, 2002 04:35

Popje wrote [an Dazey replied to]: "I’m still sticking to my theory that this season will end like a Shakespearean Romance...vs. Shakespearean tragedy. ...Willow...She’s like Prospero to me, bent on revenge having all the power. But will she be turned away from her vengeful plans by a miracle? Ie a “returned” Miranda (ie Tara)...?"

Did'nt Amber talk about the cast doing Shakespear at Joss's in her radio broadcast ...'I played Lady Macbeth to James's Macbeth'.....

OK... we know that Joss and Co love to plunder genres and Shakespear pervades just about anything you want to read/hear/see but I'm sure they have'nt gone on an all out Shakespearean parody/pastiche/storyline/whatever as yet. Maybe this is it.

I await to be either corrected, slapped down or vindicated

------------------
love and kisses

Still Waters Run Deep

" Hi!..um..aw...shit...he he he....'Scuz me..er.. I did'nt mean to..er....expose myself to.. ,ya know..public...*groan* "

Amber...

IP: Logged

wiltar
Willowhand

Posts: 390
Registered: Jun 2001 posted March 16, 2002 07:55

hey people....wow, another spoilerthread...

anyway, I've been following all on these spoilerthreads, and I believe that I still haven't seen DSM post anything since the Tara-dies spoilers... maybe I am wrong, maybe I just missed his post... but I'm really wondering what his reaction is to all that's going on here, after all, he was the one to bring us all that wonderfull news about W/T getting back together before we heard the sad Tara spoilers.

Patricia

------------------
"What are they looking at?"
"The hotness of you, doofus!"

IP: Logged

Web Warlock
Willowhand

Posts: 439
Registered: Oct 2001 posted March 16, 2002 10:45

Hmmm, and the air is still Troll smell free.

Ah.

Now all I need is some good news.

Warlock.

------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.

IP: Logged

willog
Blessed Wannabe

Posts: 11
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 10:56

Good news: She's not dead yet, and we can still enjoy the whole make-up episode and fantasise and keep our fingers firmly crossed. The worst thing would be if none of us could enjoy seing them all in love again, becasue we know what's gonna happen. smile, if only for now.

xkatex

IP: Logged

Corinthian
Doll's Eye Crystal

Posts: 74
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 11:25

While it sucks that we have to wait until April for a new episode, I am actually looking forward to the reruns, to suss out any hidden clues that might explain what's to come in either S6 or S7.

This week I think they're running Tabula Rasa. That episode perplexes me. Am I up a tree or does anyone think the idea of the "blank slate" (or at least "Joan the Vampire Slayer") has/will have any coming significance? And if so, to what end exactly?

Edited to add: man, I wish I could remember how to activate the bold font the first time!

[This message has been edited by Corinthian (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

Katharyn
Big Pineapple

Posts: 1011
Registered: Aug 2001 posted March 16, 2002 11:27

Anyone want to look at foreshadowing of this seasons theme.... "Grow Up." At the time this seemed more related to Jenny of course, but in the light of current spoilers etc...

Apologies if someone did this back in the earlier spoiler threads... I wasn't on any of the buses.

EPISODE: Lie to Me - Season 2
------------
Buffy: Nothing's ever simple anymore. I'm constantly trying to work it out. Who to love or hate. Who to trust. It's just, like, the more I know, the more confused I get.

Giles: I believe that's called growing up.

Buffy: I'd like to stop then, okay?

Giles: I know the feeling.

Buffy: Does it ever get easy?

Buffy stakes the newly arisen Ford

Giles: You mean life?

Buffy: Yeah. Does it get easy?

Giles: What do you want me to say?

Buffy: (looks up at him) Lie to me.

Giles: (considers a moment) Yes, it's terribly simple.

They start walking out of the cemetery.

Giles: The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after.

Buffy: Liar.

------------------

Who would have guessed at that point that Joss was going to return to this? Not nice reading - but it changes nothing as far as T/W spoilers and speculation go... other than the fact that if Joss has been really thinking about the "Growing Up" theme for this long (though I doubt he had it mapped out for S6 back then) then I have faith that he would have thought of some better way of dealing with the onscreen conclusion of that theme in this season that the spoilers - taken in isolation - would suggest.

I hesitated about putting this up as it can be read in a very negative light, especially the death/ stalwart heroes and recognising evil things. However really as I said above, I think that if this is a theme that has been planned for so long there is some good to come out of it... and to drag it out into season 7 would mean that there was no real point to S6 at all, except as a vehicle for S7 and I don't see that being the case. It never has been before.

There will be resolution and the more specific spoilers (in their all cast trainwreck entirety) still point me to a good, happy ending - somehow.

Katharyn

Edited to add that I am going spoiler free once more... I doubt I would be able to avoid the news of significant spoilers that will rescue this situation anyway. Besides we have space hoppers in 12 Step Support... Way more fun than buses... *Waves*
------------------
You hear that baby?

[This message has been edited by Katharyn (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

WillowsKickAssMagic
Blessed Wannabe

Posts: 1
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 11:29

after the big shocker of tara dying spoiler i want to tell u that it might not b the end 4 tara coz in a magazine i was reading amber benson said in an interview that she is not leaving so maybe she does die but some how comes back or she does not die i do not know but on the other hand i might be wrong so plez do not get your hopes up to much we will all have to wait and see!

IP: Logged

greep
Blessed Wannabe

Posts: 19
Registered: Oct 2001 posted March 16, 2002 12:44

I know I'm getting way ahead of myself, but... does anybody know when season 7 is due to air?

Also, as I'm "de-lurking" - what do you guys think about the way Buffy keeps 'zoning-out' from time -to-time (e.g. looking at the sink in "Flooded", or the meat-slicer in "DoubleMeat Palace") for a few seconds before snapping back to reality?
It's happened so many times this season that it must have some significance?

IP: Logged

AutumnT
Sassy Eggs

Posts: 757
Registered: Jul 2001 posted March 16, 2002 12:51

quote:
Originally posted by greep:
I know I'm getting way ahead of myself, but... does anybody know when season 7 is due to air?

Well, in the US it will air when it always does. In the fall. Not really a mystery here.

------------------
Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.

IP: Logged

invisigoth
Floating Rose

Posts: 38
Registered: Feb 2002 posted March 16, 2002 12:59

Hey I'm really liking the idea that this might be a Shakespearean romance. Did anyone ever read/see The Winter's Tale? I think that is one of my favorite Shakespeare plays, although it is not performed very often. What I really love about it is that starts off so dark: the king goes mad and accuses his loving wife of adultry. He then banishes his newborn daughter from the kingdom and the wife supposedly dies of heartache. He eventually lets go of his anger and realizes that he has wronged his wife. He wants to get his child back, but no one knows where she is. He spends 16 years of his life a broken man. Eventually, through much wacky Shakespearean highjinks, he is reunited with his daughter. There is this ceremony at the end where he stands in front of a statute of his wife and begs for her forgiveness. The statute comes to life and his wife forgives him. Then there is a big party. Like that play, I'm hoping for a big party at the end of this season. Let the Restoration revelry begin!

IP: Logged

SlayerTazz
Floating Rose

Posts: 26
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 13:08

quote:
Originally posted by invisigoth:
Hey I'm really liking the idea that this might be a Shakespearean romance. Did anyone ever read/see The Winter's Tale? I think that is one of my favorite Shakespeare plays, although it is not performed very often. What I really love about it is that starts off so dark: the king goes mad and accuses his loving wife of adultry. He then banishes his newborn daughter from the kingdom and the wife supposedly dies of heartache. He eventually lets go of his anger and realizes that he has wronged his wife. He wants to get his child back, but no one knows where she is. He spends 16 years of his life a broken man. Eventually, through much wacky Shakespearean highjinks, he is reunited with his daughter. There is this ceremony at the end where he stands in front of a statute of his wife and begs for her forgiveness. The statute comes to life and his wife forgives him. Then there is a big party. Like that play, I'm hoping for a big party at the end of this season. Let the Restoration revelry begin!

WOW - Invisigoth...I didn't know that anyone ever remembers that play. I performed that one when I was growning up!! Sorry, not really a spoiler type post -- but its always nice to see Shakespeare recognized (especially the lesser "known" work).

------------------
A dream is a wish the heart makes.

Buffy: (about Riley's lunch selection)...A Twinkie! That's his lunch? Oh, he is so gonna be punished.
Willow: Everyone's getting spanked but me.

IP: Logged

buffelina
Cool Monster Fighter

Posts: 195
Registered: Oct 2001 posted March 16, 2002 13:18

Buffelina lets out a long, excruciatingly painful sigh ...
utterly depressed from these spoilers. Need to hug a tree now.

IP: Logged

Sela
Cool Monster Fighter

Posts: 128
Registered: Jan 2002 posted March 16, 2002 13:28

WillowKickAssMagic--what magazine were you reading? Could you possibly post a transcript or something? I want to see that in print!

--Sela

IP: Logged

invisigoth
Floating Rose

Posts: 38
Registered: Feb 2002 posted March 16, 2002 13:31

Go Shakespeare! I didn't actually perform in a Winter's Tale, but the Troop I belonged to did. It was really powerful. We just have to have faith that Weadon was a fan of Shakerspeare's later plays that could not be easily fit into the categories of tragedy or comedy. I think that is one of the reasons I liked Tabula Rasa so much. I was laughing at loud a lot during that episode, but then it ended with such pathos. I think this season has had too much of the dark. There must be a little light at the end of the tunnel which is not a train.

IP: Logged

Verbena
Doll's Eye Crystal

Posts: 85
Registered: Mar 2001 posted March 16, 2002 13:35

Buffelina (and others) : I can be the tree...

Hugs to desperate kittens.
*waiting at the bus-stop, now*

------------------
Do not mock small blonde women like me. They may be Gods.

[This message has been edited by Verbena (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

quote:quote:quote:quote:quote:quote:quote:quote:

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited March 16, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 18, 2002).]IP: LoggedGODisTiggerSassy Eggs

Posts: 725
Registered: May 2001 posted March 16, 2002 02:50

:: frolics in the new thread ::

edited to add: because I'm totally smashed

D

------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.

[This message has been edited by GODisTigger (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

posted March 16, 2002 02:50 :: frolics in the new thread ::

edited to add: because I'm totally smashed

D

------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.

[This message has been edited by GODisTigger (edited March 16, 2002).]IP: LoggedCorinthianDoll's Eye Crystal

Posts: 74
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 02:58

It's a new thread, but the Everything's Gonna Be Okay PARTY bus is still a rockin'! We've got swank tunes, more tequila than you can shake a wet ferret at, chocolate a'plenty, snacks, a disco ball, plenty of space to dance and a luuuuvre coach in back if you're feeling smoochy with that special someone. So flag down Starfuct, who began the bus and is driving us to bliss thru to the end of S6 with hopes and dreams of Willow & Tara goodness!

[This message has been edited by Corinthian (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

posted March 16, 2002 02:58 It's a new thread, but the Everything's Gonna Be Okay PARTY bus is still a rockin'! We've got swank tunes, more tequila than you can shake a wet ferret at, chocolate a'plenty, snacks, a disco ball, plenty of space to dance and a luuuuvre coach in back if you're feeling smoochy with that special someone. So flag down Starfuct, who began the bus and is driving us to bliss thru to the end of S6 with hopes and dreams of Willow & Tara goodness!

[This message has been edited by Corinthian (edited March 16, 2002).]IP: Loggedwas recovering lurkerFloating Rose

Posts: 37
Registered: Nov 2000 posted March 16, 2002 03:12

Aynaia, I'm curious, how does TR foreshadow Willow's return to magic?

IP: Logged

posted March 16, 2002 03:12 Aynaia, I'm curious, how does TR foreshadow Willow's return to magic?IP: LoggedaynaiaBlessed Wannabe

Posts: 3
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 03:18

I just wanted to reply to something at the end of the last thread. I have seen nothing wrong in any of the comments made about unregistered posters here. The bashing of themes on theme related boards is small-minded & intentionally cruel. In cases like this W/T board where these characters have captured our hearts & become as loved almost like a member of your family the bashing is just unforgiveable. If it's not what you like then go to one that you do but respect someones feelings when you are a guest in their home.
I have posted here a couple of times & never had anything other than friendly sincere responses from the members of this board so no offense was taken when speaking of trolls.
I am a straight (as far as I know anyway), thiry-something married woman, who happens to believe that the W/T relationship is the most beautiful, pure, & honest relationships on television. I believe this because they were written this way, written as true soul-mates. It really pisses me off that I come over here to try to help keep hope alive & there are people actually coming here & making it that much worse with childish & hurtful remarks.

I would just like to tell all you kittens that W/T isn't just supported & loved by the lesbian community, there are a lot of other shippers on other boards that are just as upset at the thought of losing Tara or Willow or their relationship as you are. I appreciate the kindness & friendliness that has been shown to me each time I have been here, thank you.

quote:
Originally posted by was recovering lurker:
Aynaia, I'm curious, how does TR foreshadow Willow's return to magic?

Well I actually probably shouldn't have put that one on the list because that was just my own personal take on the fact that even though she knew the consequences of casting that spell she did it anyway. Tara had already pointed out about how hurtful it was for her to invade her mind like Glory had & how it made her feel yet Willow named Buffy & Tara in the spell to wipe their minds clean. I don't think that could really be classified as foreshadowing but more of an opinion based on the fact that she thought she could get away with something she knew was hurtful & very sensitive to Tara.
Sorry for the confusion, sometimes my fingers kind mess up the sense my brain thinks it is making.

[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 16, 2002).]

IP: Logged

posted March 16, 2002 03:18 I just wanted to reply to something at the end of the last thread. I have seen nothing wrong in any of the comments made about unregistered posters here. The bashing of themes on theme related boards is small-minded & intentionally cruel. In cases like this W/T board where these characters have captured our hearts & become as loved almost like a member of your family the bashing is just unforgiveable. If it's not what you like then go to one that you do but respect someones feelings when you are a guest in their home.
I have posted here a couple of times & never had anything other than friendly sincere responses from the members of this board so no offense was taken when speaking of trolls.
I am a straight (as far as I know anyway), thiry-something married woman, who happens to believe that the W/T relationship is the most beautiful, pure, & honest relationships on television. I believe this because they were written this way, written as true soul-mates. It really pisses me off that I come over here to try to help keep hope alive & there are people actually coming here & making it that much worse with childish & hurtful remarks.

I would just like to tell all you kittens that W/T isn't just supported & loved by the lesbian community, there are a lot of other shippers on other boards that are just as upset at the thought of losing Tara or Willow or their relationship as you are. I appreciate the kindness & friendliness that has been shown to me each time I have been here, thank you.

quote:
Originally posted by was recovering lurker:
Aynaia, I'm curious, how does TR foreshadow Willow's return to magic?

Well I actually probably shouldn't have put that one on the list because that was just my own personal take on the fact that even though she knew the consequences of casting that spell she did it anyway. Tara had already pointed out about how hurtful it was for her to invade her mind like Glory had & how it made her feel yet Willow named Buffy & Tara in the spell to wipe their minds clean. I don't think that could really be classified as foreshadowing but more of an opinion based on the fact that she thought she could get away with something she knew was hurtful & very sensitive to Tara.
Sorry for the confusion, sometimes my fingers kind mess up the sense my brain thinks it is making.

[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 16, 2002).]quote:IP: LoggedRallyCool Monster Fighter

Posts: 260
Registered: Dec 2001 posted March 16, 2002 03:31

quote:
Originally posted by aynaia:
I just wanted to reply to something at the end of the last thread. I have seen nothing wrong in any of the comments made about unregistered posters here. The bashing of themes on theme related boards is small-minded & intentionally cruel...I appreciate the kindness & friendliness that has been shown to me each time I have been here, thank you.

Aynaia,

It is a simple matter of do unto others...
We are a community here, and we have one very simple, very adamant goal...the W/T loving.
No one is expected to agree with this or support this, but if you want to post here, then you damn well need to respect it.
Kittens do no maliciously post on other boards, exalting in their misery.
We simply ask the same in return.
There is nothing against unregistered posters, some have their reasons for not registering and post very nice and insightful posts like yours.
But as a rule, most trolls do post anonymously, cowardly. They also will debate you to death about how they are right and you are wrong.
But if there is a rule for this board, it is that W/T are destined, it is love truly and forever.
So for those who choose to not feel that the preceeding statement is true. They are free to not post and cause dissention in an otherwise very warm and friendly community.

------------------
No, please. I mean, tell me if I said something wrong otherwise I know I'll say it again. Probably often and in public.

IP: Logged

posted March 16, 2002 03:31

quote:
Originally posted by aynaia:
I just wanted to reply to something at the end of the last thread. I have seen nothing wrong in any of the comments made about unregistered posters here. The bashing of themes on theme related boards is small-minded & intentionally cruel...I appreciate the kindness & friendliness that has been shown to me each time I have been here, thank you.

Aynaia,

It is a simple matter of do unto others...
We are a community here, and we have one very simple, very adamant goal...the W/T loving.
No one is expected to agree with this or support this, but if you want to post here, then you damn well need to respect it.
Kittens do no maliciously post on other boards, exalting in their misery.
We simply ask the same in return.
There is nothing against unregistered posters, some have their reasons for not registering and post very nice and insightful posts like yours.
But as a rule, most trolls do post anonymously, cowardly. They also will debate you to death about how they are right and you are wrong.
But if there is a rule for this board, it is that W/T are destined, it is love truly and forever.
So for those who choose to not feel that the preceeding statement is true. They are free to not post and cause dissention in an otherwise very warm and friendly community.

------------------
No, please. I mean, tell me if I said something wrong otherwise I know I'll say it again. Probably often and in public.quote:IP: LoggedBlackthornBlessed Wannabe

Posts: 3
Registered: Mar 2002 posted March 16, 2002 03:43