The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe Willow & Tara Forever

by **The Godfather** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 8:08 am

Sherwolf: Never at any time said I was a B/Aer. Nor do I have to be to enjoy the first three seasons of the show.

Re: Fake scripts.

Not likely. It takes usually two weeks to write a script. You have to break it down and then give it to a writer and then, with the exception of Joss, it sees it's way through several revisions.

We know Marti, Fury, DeKnight and Petrie are busy. The one person who might be able to do pickup duty would be Espenson but she's working on FIREFLY and the cartoon. There simply isn't time to waste on something with no production value.

As for location shoots..they are VERY expensive. A TV show that probably budgets between 1-1.5m per doesn't have the resources to hire out a location, list it with the film commision and then rent the props(such as the bus).

Also, PAs are just not paid enough to participate in eloborate schemes. Trust me on that. Set PAs for Buffy are DGA trainees. Office PAs are regular hires.

-Shawn

by **capricornmist** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 8:33 am

Hey all,

I`m still drooling over the Tara naked and sex devil bit but...........ahem, anyway!
*Drifing off into my Tara world*

It`s seems bizarre to me that they would allow Tara and Willow to get back together again only to kill Tara off, seems to cruel, even by Joss`s standards!

Also another thing I cannot fathom is why they would leak so much info on the BSD, it doesn`t make sense to me. I mean why spoil the surprise for everyone? Surely thats all part of the effect?

Since this info leaked everyone seems to know that Tara is gonna die, everyone will watch (or not in some cases) with horror knowing whats going to happen. They can`t end a season with everyone knowing about it.

I believe that something will happen to bring her back or maybe she didn`t die in the first place.

It all seems a little to cut and dry for me, there is alot I think we are missing.

The whole Anya thing has me thinking, I mean she is the one with the broken heart and with her background that canot be good for Xander.

As pointed out before it does seem to be Xander`s time.

Willow and Tara forever!

by **JBC** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 8:43 am

quote:
Originally posted by Web Warlock:
Thanks. Those are a little old though...
And about all the other posts about why I should still trust ME. Those are great, but I guess my deal is I am getting the feeling that Joss is not steering the ship anymore.

Warlock,

Yeah, those quotes are pretty old, but I've gotten to the point where I'm clinging to them as my last strings of hope. Sometimes, I too get the feeling that Joss isn't in full control as he used to be, but I still think he has the final say. (The show is his baby after all.)

With what he's said before about W/T, I doubt that the death will be permanent -- and Joss doesn't strike me as someone who would go against his word. I just can't imagine him approving the much discussed scenario that will play out in the coming months without having it end on a positive note.

I wish I had something more concrete to give everyone hope, but I don't. Sorry All I can say is keep the faith.

JBC

[This message has been edited by JBC (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

by **Corinthian** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 8:44 am

quote:
Originally posted by Web Warlock:
What I need is a well trained group of Internet gnomes to do nothing but search for new news. That or get my net connection wet-wired to my head.
Warlock.

Ah but web gnomes usually want strange compensation (like those old socks with a hold in the big toe -- comfy in winter) and if you wet-wired the net connection to your head, you'd definitely have to go iMac... too many bugs in Microsoft's NeuralNet 1.0 (and the security patch won't be available for another 8 to 9 months).quote:

by **Willowhand** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 9:00 am

quote:
Originally posted by VampNo1:
My new logic that Willow and Tara will be happy and alive at the end of the season goes back to season 4 and 5. In New Moon Rising (episode 18 or 19 not sure which one) it looks like Willow might choose Oz over Tara, but in the end we as an audience are rewarded with the merging of souls of W&T. Then in season 5 we have Tough Love (episode 19), where after a fight Tara gets her brain sucked, but at the end of the season Willow finds Tara and they happily reunite sans brain suck. Now we have season 6 with Tara shot dead and Willow going to the dark side (episode 19) to get revenge. I am starting to see a trend that has W&T put through the angst where we as viewers fear the worst, but in the end there is light at the end of the tunnel with W&T together and happy. Therefore, I will hope and pray that this trend continues and in the end W&T's true-love will win.

Y'know what...I hadn't thought of that! Thanks for giving me more hope...I definately needed some more.

quote:

by **Grimaldi** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 10:18 am

I'm guessing that the spoiler that came out about Anya's vengence on Xander not going the way she expected is the key to the whole ep. 20 mess. If there is a reset or reversal, then it probably would be to ep 19. This time instead of Buffy being the only one fighting the Geeks of Doom, all of the Scoobies are involved and Warren doesn't get away.

Besides, then we could have the season end with more W/T sex.

------------------
"Is everyone here very stoned?"- Spike, Weight of the World
"No more snuggles?"- Willow, Dopplegangland
Th-that was funny if you, um, studied taglarin mythic rites... and are a complete dork."- Tara, Family
"Operator, give me the number for 911"

by **Willowhand** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 10:30 am

quote:
Originally posted by Grimaldi:
I'm guessing that the spoiler that came out about Anya's vengence on Xander not going the way she expected is the key to the whole ep. 20 mess. If there is a reset or reversal, then it probably would be to ep 19. This time instead of Buffy being the only one fighting the Geeks of Doom, all of the Scoobies are involved and Warren doesn't get away.

Yeah, but doesn't Tara get shot in 19, and actually die in 20? A reset would have to take place in 20, 21...or maybe even 22. Joss did mention something about a cliffhanger this season...it might just end with the reset, and we'll have to find out what happens next year. Which...really doesn't make sense, either...because then everything would drag into next season.

Grr! This is all so confusing.

quote:

by **Ed The Spoiler** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 10:45 am

Sorry that I havent been keeping up with the Board, I was out of town for a few days on business.

In regards to the question about timelines, here is a quick summary by episode:

Episode 18
--------------
Xander discovers a camera and has a run in with Spike. Buffy defends him and this causes spike to demand that Buffy tell everyone about them. Anya ends up going to spike who's the only person she knows who "hates" xander, gets drunk and does sleep with him. he gang sees it, and Xander mentions breaking up with her over it. Anya decides to return to being a vengence demon again after egged on by Halfrek and D'Hoffryn, but there is a big condition attached to it. The nerds discuss and begin their plan to kill Buffy (much to the horror of Jonathon). The scoobs (including dawn) end up learning about Buffy's affair with spike and it leads to a huge arguement.
--------------
Episode 19
---------------
Buffy breaks up the nerds plans and they summon a demon to try to distract her. Anya is almost killed by the demon but is saved by Xander and in a tender moment wonders whether or not he still loves her and is obviously worried about her recent choice (it doesnt end that way though because Xander is really vicious over the sex with Spike thing and she ends up granting WARREN'S wish). The nerds are arrested for theft and murder, but Warren escapes. Willow and Tara decide that they have been apart too long and reconcile, however, after willow leaves Tara in bed, a trap that Warren had lain for Buffy goes off and kills Tara while she's alone.
--------
Episode 20
--------
After finding Tara dead, Willow loses it and goes to "Rack" for help in bringing Tara back to life, but there is no way and Willow decides that nothing and noone will stop her from killing Warren. Buffy is worried that Dawn will get caught in the crossfire and tries to pawn her off on Spike, but she learns that he's left town. Willow goes on a rampage and ends up killing several innocent people (though Buffy and Xander both try to stop her) and ends up destroying Warren but find outs he's a decoy. Spike has his chip removed in an attempt to prove to Buffy that he can redeem himself and be good WITHOUT the use of it. But, can he?
-----------------
Episode 21
-----------------
Buffy tries to stop Willow, but she has literally gone insane with power.
Things in Sunnydale really begin to resemble hell on earth and Spike returns
BAD bent on killing Buffy for "castrating" him. Buffy calls Giles, desperate for help with Willow and the Warren situation and he agrees to come back.
Willow finds the real Warren and tortures him to the point he wishes he were dead. Spike goes after Buffy thru the one person he can, DAWN, and vamps her.
--------
Episode 21
--------
Giles arrives and finds everything has gone to Hell. Willow's powers cause her to go supernova blowing out half the town, but she warns Buffy in time for her and giles to get far enough away.

Buffy learns of what happened with Spike vows to kill Spike, but begs Giles to deal with Dawn because she cant. Buffy confronts Spike. Giles dusts Dawn. Giles arrives during the battle between Buffy and Spike and ends up getting his neck broken, Buffy is mortally wounded but kills Spike. Xander lays bleeding to death as Anya goades him saying that all this happened because of him and Xander (who doesnt know that she accepted the Vengence Demon offer) sees what happened and that she's the cause of it all when she reverts to her true self. He tells her that he loves her, that she isnt a demon no matter what she looks like and dies. Anya destroys her pendant and the world shifts.
--------

by **Willowhand** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 10:53 am

quote:
Originally posted by Ed The Spoiler:
Anya destroys her pendant and the world shifts.

Is this true? Please, please tell me it is.

quote:

by **wiccie** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 10:56 am

Ed, thanks again for your info. I sure hope you're right! This is some Wild Ride - I'm hangin' on tight.

Have faith in Joss, Kitties, and let the story play out.

by **Rally** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 10:58 am

Ed, Ed, Ed...

This is really hard, because I want to believe you, I really do. But the information you have listed fits within the guidelines of spoilers we have from trusted sources. But it also follows a lot of the speculation that is running rampant across every message board.

But, ya know, I am going to have to continue to take a wait and see attitude.

------------------
No, please. I mean, tell me if I said something wrong otherwise I know I'll say it again. Probably often and in public.

by **drlloyd11** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 10:58 am

quote:
Originally posted by Ed The Spoiler:
Sorry that I havent been keeping up with the Board, I was out of town for a few days on business.
--------

Nope, it does not check out.. there are a number of contradictions with your claims the scripts and site reports regarding ep 20. If you are jerking peoples chains here I will be VERY VERY VERY Upset..
Please people, dont take the bait. There is reason to hope, and you dont need this..

quote:

by **AutumnT** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:00 am

OK.

Someone needs to run this episode 20 info from Ed through AngelX and see if it maps. That ought to give us a good idea as to the veracity of it all.

------------------
Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.

by **Bev** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:02 am

I am new here, but have been lurking for a couple of weeks now. I've not been able to plow through all the speculation, due to time, but what I have read has given me pause to think. And so on that note...

I'm firmly entrenched in the "Everything's Gonna Be All Right" camp. So I did some digging into past season. I'm referring to the Season 4 Episode Something Blue. This is the one where Willow is invited by D'Hoffryn to become a Vengeance Demon (or the more PC term - Justice Demon). Specifically, I'm referring to the point that Willow turns him down and he gives her his Talisman saying something like If you ever change your mind, just give us a chant. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Willow still have this Talisman? And how does/would this fit into everything?

by **xita** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:03 am

With the legitimate information I have, there are huge inconsistencies in 18 and 20. I wouldn't put much faith in these current Ed spoilers.

Ed, what is your source anyway, I mean is it scripts? Or something else.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 18, 2002).]

by **Rane** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:06 am

didn't michelle say she had the script for 19? has she posted the love scene? i've not been reading the spoiler thread by thread cause it's too depressing but if i've missed it could someone please point me in that direction? thanks.

by **xita** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:09 am

No, she doesn't have 19. So all we know about the love scene is from Amber and one random post in the bronze.

by **sassyeggs** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:12 am

Well, Ed, that's a morbid set of spoilers you've got there. I think the biggest hole in that I can see is that they would have to remember and/or learn their lesson. Incidentally, a part of the bigger picture is becoming interesting to my local Buffy friends and myself. It all ties back into Restless. Most of the obscure messages in it have been answered (i.e. "Come back before Dawn. Death is your gift.") but what hasn't been answered is why Tara is the voice of the First Slayer, and why she is the guide through everyone's dreams. Then, in the Gift, it is Tara who guides them to Glory. Combine this with her still vague details about the extent of her mother's powers, and you have all of the makings for a doozy of a omnipotent Tara.

------------------
This is a dumb world. In my world there are people in chains, and we can ride them like ponies.

by **drlloyd11** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:20 am

Thats what I did... I dont want to give away the plot holes to make it easier for the next troll. IM me for details
on AOL LawyerOfSatan

quote:
Originally posted by AutumnT:
OK.
Someone needs to run this episode 20 info from Ed through AngelX and see if it maps. That ought to give us a good idea as to the veracity of it all.

quote:

by **wiccie** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:20 am

Bev, it's cool that you're in the "Everything Will Be OK" camp, but the theories you bring up (Willow/D'Hoffryn/Vengeance Demons/Wishes) have been discussed at *great length* in this and other spoiler threads.

None of us have tons of free time, but as a courtesy we ask that peeps *do* read/skim the threads (yes, even slogging thru the Giant Spoiler Thread) to avoid redundant posts.

by **Ed The Spoiler** » Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:24 am

Xita -

I will say that my source is not a script... and I will relent that I may be wrong on a couple of small points (or rather when they transpire) but I am adament about the direction the show is going.

By the way, if you dont happen to believe me, thats fine, buts lets all try avoid a war on here because I know that alot of you already firmly believe (or disbelieve) that certain things will or will not happen and the point is to allow everyone to say what they want. I'm a big boy and can take a few "bad" words, but, I'm only here because i enjoy what you guys are saying. and, quite frankly, as far as any of you know I could be:

1) Completely right on the money
2) Making all of this up
3) Disinforming you to protect ME
4) Completely crazy

But I still stick by what I've said, wait and see...

The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe Willow & Tara Forever

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