General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 10

[BBOvenGuy]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
Is there any possible way that the scripts that have been seen are fake?

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Sadly, no there is not. I had hoped that myself, but there is not.

How do I know?

Because before I went out to the desert on Tuesday, I asked AnGeL X what I might expect to see. She told me I would see Warren on a bus being chased by BlackMagicWillow, with Buffy and Xander there. She told me there was "a twist" to the scene, but she didn't tell me what that twist was.

When I went out to the desert, I found the bus, just as AnGeL X said I would. I found out that Alyson Hannigan's all-black contact lenses were on the prop list for the day, confirming that BlackMagicWillow was in the scene. I found out that the crew had been asking the bus people how to make it look like the bus's controls were going crazy, confirming that Willow would attack the bus. All these matched what AnGeL X had told me.

I then found out that "robot prosthetics" were on the prop list for the day, leading to the conclusion that it wasn't Warren on the bus - it was a Warren-bot. That was the twist that AnGeL X had mentioned but not specified. When I came back and reported what I'd seen and heard, AnGeL X saw that I had discovered the Warren-bot twist on my own, thus confirming that her material was correct.

You can't imagine how much I was wishing that script would be a fake. Well, okay maybe you can. But alas, it's the real deal.
quote:

[willow420]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wiccagrrl:
Look, I don't enjoy raining on anyone's parade, and I am feeling fairly confident that Tara will be alive and well when all is said and done, but...between AngelX's spoilers and Bob's location shoot... it's VERY unlikely we won't see Tara die and Willow go all vengeancy.

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Well not only is it unlikely but her death and Willow's badassness is almost guranteed.

And Ruth, Tara's not only evil she's the sex devil and Willow is her minion.

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A.K.A. Liz

Kisses and gay love anyone?
********************
When it comes to love, I just don't see straight.quote:

[Peapod]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by willow420:
[B] Well not only is it unlikely but her death and Willow's badassness is almost guranteed.

And Ruth, Tara's not only evil she's the sex devil and Willow is her minion.

You just put the biggest smile on my face. Just having that picture in my head.... Thank you...Ahaaaaaa.....

[This message has been edited by Peapod (edited March 18, 2002).]

[minion]

quote:

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Originally posted by mariacomet:

To murder Tara is to murder Willow.

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I totally agree with you on this, its not a question of whether Willow could survive without Tara, it's that to murder her soulmate would kill everything we love most about Willow, her spirit, her humanity, her heart.

With Tara she has found her true love, that's not just what we think, that's what Joss et al have repeatedly told us, to kill Tara, which as Xita has said is completely unnecessary, would kill Willow, even if she survives in body, she won't survive in any other way, which is why the situation cannot and will not stay like that.

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I am in thunderous agreement, oh glittering, glistening Glorificus! : Jinx in Tough Lovequote:

[maudmac]

Wiccagrrl, no, I don't believe they'd set up a fake shoot just for Bob and his fellow shoot groupies. But my point is that the spoilery info he came back with primarily came from the PAs and/or Bob's friends who were there. He actually saw a bus. And, obviously, he saw the fact that they were shooting in the desert. But he didn't see anything that directly confirms or disputes the spoilage. Who knows what other uses a bus or a scene filmed in the desert could have?

Please do not interpret this as a dismissal of Bob, his efforts, or his information. That isn't my intention at all. I'm not attacking Michelle or Bob. Never would I doubt what Bob says or that he trusts his friends or sources. I was only pointing out that if ME wants to mislead us, it seems to me that it would be easy to do so. Two fake scripts and a couple of PAs instructed to lie is a plausible scenario to me.

For the record, the trainwreck with a reset/reversal/whatever is an equally plausible scenario to me. I don't have an agenda; I'm just thinking.

Edited to add: I read Bob's post above. Thank you for weighing in, Bob. (And thank you for everything you've done! It wasn't you I was doubting.) It's also plausible to me that if ME planned a fake script deal, they would make certain that the fake one was parallel to the real one, so as not to have their plan thwarted by people who might see the shoot.

[This message has been edited by maudmac (edited March 18, 2002).]

[The Big I-T]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
I then found out that "robot prosthetics" were on the prop list for the day, leading to the conclusion that it wasn't Warren on the bus - it was a Warren-bot.

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So does this mean that the one that Willow goes paybacky on with torture and death is actually Warren-bot and not Warren himself? Or is there another piece here that I'm missing?

--jr

[This message has been edited by The Big I-T (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

[xita]

No I think that was a decoy, Willow does find Warren and does incinirate him.

[The Rose]

A Warren-bot?

Are you saying Warren is going to get away with this CRAP?!!!!!!!!

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Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.

Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!

[Wiccagrrl]

I'm thinking, The Rose, that he *tries* to get away with it, but Willow does indeed catch up with him in the end.

[VampNo1]

My new logic that Willow and Tara will be happy and alive at the end of the season goes back to season 4 and 5. In New Moon Rising (episode 18 or 19 not sure which one) it looks like Willow might choose Oz over Tara, but in the end we as an audience are rewarded with the merging of souls of W&T. Then in season 5 we have Tough Love (episode 19), where after a fight Tara gets her brain sucked, but at the end of the season Willow finds Tara and they happily reunite sans brain suck. Now we have season 6 with Tara shot dead and Willow going to the dark side (episode 19) to get revenge. I am starting to see a trend that has W&T put through the angst where we as viewers fear the worst, but in the end there is light at the end of the tunnel with W&T together and happy. Therefore, I will hope and pray that this trend continues and in the end W&T's true-love will win.

[This message has been edited by VampNo1 (edited March 18, 2002).]

[BBOvenGuy]

quote:

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Originally posted by maudmac:
I was only pointing out that if ME wants to mislead us, it seems to me that it would be easy to do so. Two fake scripts and a couple of PAs instructed to lie is a plausible scenario to me.

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The hard part about lying is that it's very difficult to make sure that everyone is telling exactly the same lie. Yes, you could send out a couple of fake scripts and tell a couple of PA's to lie, but then you'd have to make sure that the people who visit the shoot are the same people who saw the fake script, and you'd have to make sure that the people who visit the shoot talk only to the PA's who have been instructed to lie. There's no way they could reasonably expect that. I doubt Joss has my computer and AnGeL X's computer bugged and knows we're talking to each other.

In order to make the lie truly convincing, Mutant Enemy would have to cover so many possible combinations of people who get scripts and people who visit location shoots, and I really don't think they have the time or the budget to bother with it all.

quote:

[Sela]

This is what keeps me going:

Willow and Tara have been the ONLY couple to experience intimacy in its purest form. And what I mean by this is that they regard each other with affection, reverence, and equality. It hasn't been overt, because of broadcasting restrictions, but that's just made it all the more powerful. Think about it--could you ever imagine Xander telling Anya, "Hear that baby, you're my always?" Did you ever hear Buffy tell Angel, "I found you. I'll always find you." Nope. It has been made clear that Willow and Tara have the kind of relationship we all wish we had. I mean, who else on the show stays up late at night, in bed with their lover, and talks about their day or the new big bad? Only Willow and Tara. That's why I have to have faith that the writers will not disappoint us. It's gonna suck for a while, but I just have to think it'll be alright in the end.

--Sela

[sassyeggs]

Okay, I've been on vacation since Wednesday. Do we know anything else that's more hopeful?

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This is a dumb world. In my world there are people in chains, and we can ride them like ponies.

[AutumnT]

No.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.

[Wiccagrrl]

LOL, Autumn. Direct and to the point. But, man...I sure wish we did have some more positive spoilers. Course, if there *is* any good news to be had, it could very well concern the end of the finale, and well...we may not get very detailed spoilers on that for quite a while (maybe not till the wildfeed.)

[The Rose]

quote:

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Do we know anything else that's more hopeful?

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Sorry, I come here everyday hoping to find some good news, but alas. We still don't know anything about eps 21 and 22.

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Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.

Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!

[This message has been edited by The Rose (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

[VampNo1]

Does anyone remember how far ahead we got spoilers of the season finale last year? I was trying to remember, but I am not sure,and I don't know how much longer I can wait for episode 22 spoilers.

[This message has been edited by VampNo1 (edited March 18, 2002).]

[Ari]

I know this is bad, and I really am not anxious to see Warren tortured.

But darn it, if I have to sit through Tara dying, then part of me wants to see Willow going out of her mind with grief. They downplayed her reaction to Tara leaving so much. We only saw her crying that first night and then when she cuddled Tara's disembodied clothes. They even cut the line about her crying from OAFA.

As much as I know it's the mature, rational thing to do accept something like this and try to move on, not do things Tara wouldn't want her to do, that's just not real to me.

I want it all. The tears. The rage. I want to feel how much she loves Tara, even if that love is expressed in the worst possible ways. It's visceral. Kind of like, 'okay Joss, hit me with your best shot, I can take it'.

And then all I want is for it to be okay in the end, so I'll have a reason to watch the show next year.

Ari

[greatluna]

quote:

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Originally posted by Sela:
It's gonna suck for a while, but I just have to think it'll be alright in the end.

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brava!!! you summed up in two lines everything i tried to write down in the past two days, conveying foreshadowings, hints and stuff like that in some kind of an, err, "essay". however ME decides to tell this sorry tale of *more* death, *more* falling off the wagon, *more* vengeance... it will be hell to watch. but i have faith. ME has yet to disappoint me. no, really.

***
if it's not love then it's the bomb that will bring us together...
quote:

[Grace]

Here's what I don't get. . .I keep reading about how if Willow kills Warren, she would be too far gone and it would be hard for her to get back in with the Scoobies, but what about last season when Giles killed Ben? Granted, half his personality was a psycho, hell-god, but Warren will have killed at least two people we know of, so why would Willow offing him in a moment of passion and grief be so unforgivable in the Buffyverse? Any opinions? (Not that I'm condoning murder. . .)

[AutumnT]

Giles and Willow are entirely different people. With different feelings, lives, and motivations. Things can and will affect them differently.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.

[Elz]

quote:

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Originally posted by Grace:
Warren will have killed at least two people we know of, so why would Willow offing him in a moment of passion and grief be so unforgivable in the Buffyverse?

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First, it's bad because of what it does to Willow - she's got a lot more innocence to lose than Giles. Second, for all his scientific skill, Warren is only human. There's no reason he couldn't be prosecuted by the regular authorities. Third, Willow doesn't just kill him, she tortures him quite intensely. That crosses the line from justice to vengeance, and we've seen since S2 that vengeance is a bad, bad thing.

(I hope I'm doing this right - I'm new but I swear I read the FAQ!)

Elzquote:

[drlloyd11]

NO!
He gets it, and gets what he deserves. Trust me on this one, he doesnt *just* die.

AS far as redemable, I think Joss has shown that the magic is an addiction that kills. After what she does, I dont see her beating it again. Not without Tara anyway... Her killing warren is not the only issue here..

quote:

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Originally posted by The Rose:
A Warren-bot?

Are you saying Warren is going to get away with this CRAP?!!!!!!!!

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[This message has been edited by drlloyd11 (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

[theatremouse]

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:
No I think that was a decoy, Willow does find Warren and does incinirate him.

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really? all firey death? i'd missed that detail.
is it like a zap-o-warren or some big whooooshey lightning type spell that makes her seem like zeus.....or do we not know really?

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It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.quote:

[tyche]

Okay, I'm on holiday. I'm in an internet cafe. I log onto Spoiler Slayer, read all this 'Tara dies' stuff, and I think: that's it. I'm done with the show if this happens.
I'm sorry, but I thought we were past all of this death rumour crap. I really thought that, with the end of the Feb. sweeps, we were out of the woods. And now we're not. I just had this gut feeling that after ep. 16 was too late to kill off a character. And I feel like somebody's punched me.
And this has really, really brought home to me how miserable this season has really made me feel. Huh. How in the name of heck can I get so worked up about a TV show, and about something which hasn't even happened on said TV show as yet.
B/S getting it on was the first nail in the coffin for me, Buffy-wise. If this Tara death actually happens, and if it's a precursor to a 'reset' at the end of the season, then that'll be the last nail. It's not the show, it's just the way I react to the show that gets me down. And without Tara or without a W/T reunion, I will have zero reason to watch the show.
And since Tensai is giving this credence, I can't just shrug and say 'Oh, there's a Tara death rumour, must be Tuesday'.
I think I need to go and swear or punch something. Nrghhhhhhhh.

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I don't watch pornography. I just write it. - Joss
Tara: Nice baffroom.
Anya: (noddin') Like the bleedin' tile. - 'The Yoko Factor' in Cockney

[This message has been edited by tyche (edited March 18, 2002).]

[Dr.G]

Tyche I am sorry to hear you had to find out like this. I am glad I had a little headstart before I actually had to read Angel X' (and to me the fact that it comes from her gives it credence, nothing else) post on the Kitten. This will happen, but how it ends no one knows yet. The next few months really are going to take forever, or so it feels anyway.

[Willow-n-Tara_1]

All my money goes to a reversal/reset in 21 or 22… I mean if all this happens in 19-20

1. Warren Dead
2. Other two geeks in jail
3. Spike in Africa
4. Willow all Black magic and last
5. Tara dead..sigh!!!

What does that leave for the next to eps, try and redeem/console Willow. I don’t think they can do that in just two episodes and I can’t imagine that would be the way the season would end. Just me ranting, trying to get a handle on all this. Oh and is there any way I can get more dirt on how Warren gets it???

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From Out Aug01::: Joss on the Amber/Aly 'Kiss'
"Can we have one that's less like you're going to sleep together in about five minutes"

[KJ_Chicago]

I like your observations VampNo1 -

quote:

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Originally posted by VampNo1:
My new logic that Willow and Tara will be happy and alive at the end of the season goes back to season 4 and 5. In New Moon Rising (episode 19) it looks like Willow might choose Oz over Tara, but in the end we as an audience are rewarded with the merging of souls of W&T. Then in season 5 we have Tough Love (episode 19), where after a fight Tara gets her brain sucked, but at the end of the season Willow finds Tara and they happily reunite sans brain suck. Now we have season 6 with Tara shot dead and Willow going to the dark side (episode 19) to get revenge. I am starting to see a trend that has W&T put through the angst where we as viewers fear the worst, but in the end there is light at the end of the tunnel with W&T together and happy. Therefore, I will hope and pray that this trend continues and in the end W&T's true-love will win.

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but I also have a new spin theory that I thought of while driving in to work this morning.

W/T shippers do get angst filled ep. 19's for three seasons in a row, but season 4 & 5, Joss and company came through in the end. And, Sela and a few others have mentioned that we do know that W/T are soulmates and have demonstrated the most intimacy of any of the couples on BtVS. I am going back to a couple of things.

EP18 - W approaches T at end of class and they make a coffee date for the next day. We know that Anya intrudes at the Expresso Pump. It seems as if W/T have agreed to proceed slowly, but at the end of this eppy Tara appears back in their room and we know that they make up. Tara decides to skip talking and "they kiss passionately, they interlock fingers, holding on as tight as they can, not letting go they keep kissing, it is intense, it is passionate, and it is above all else, love, truly and forever."

I think it is important to note "truly and forever"; it seems like a line out of a fairy tale or wish. I think that just prior to this end scene that Anya has granted a wish. What if the wish was for all the Scoobies to express their true feelings without hesitation; no holding back. It would allow Tara to suddenly move forward and go back to Willow. It could also begin Spike getting his chip removed. I agree with what others have posted about how Spike has been humiliated often because of the chip holding him back. But since this leads him down the path of evil...possibly to the point of no return then it fits in with the "reset" theory. Remember in "Hells Bells" how X/A argued about his loyalty to Buffy. What if after the wish is cast that Xander declares that his true love is for Buffy and not Anya? So, after the "trainwreck" occurs, couldn't Anya see the results of the wish are too much and she sacrifices herself and dies with a broken heart?

And somehow, Buffy and Dawn are going to enter into this scenario. Just not sure how yet. And I do think that Giles is going to return for ep. 21&22.

[This message has been edited by KJ_Chicago (edited March 18, 2002).]quote:

[JBC]

quote:

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Originally posted by sassyeggs:
Do we know anything else that's more hopeful?

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I'm just a lowly newbie, but I thought these quotes from Joss would cheer some people up:

"We leave a lot of big gaping holes--for inspiration to hopefully show up at some point--but we map out seasons very specifically, particularly for Buffy. We try to figure out where she'll be.
We actually knew what was going to happen at the end of this season in the middle of the third season. And we pretty much know everything that's going to happen in season six already." http://www.eonline.com/Features/Feature ... index.html

AND

"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber [Benson] and Alyson [Hannigan] have such great chemistry; they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they're on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen--but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
http://www.eonline.com/Features/Feature ... ndex3.html

This interview appeared early last fall, so have faith Kittens!! Tara WILL BE BACK!quote:

[Web Warlock]

JBC,

Thanks. Those are a little old though...

And about all the other posts about why I should still trust ME. Those are great, but I guess my deal is I am getting the feeling that Joss is not steering the ship anymore.

What I need is a well trained group of Internet gnomes to do nothing but search for new news. That or get my net connection wet-wired to my head.

Warlock.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"And remember, if you hurt her, I will beat you to death with a shovel.
A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend." - Willow.