General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 10

[Spike'sbestfan]

I'm new to posting, but I've been lurking a long time.

Just wanted to ask if anyone else thinks ME could be floating a "trial balloon" with fake spoilers to see how people will react?
Then they'll decide the final bits of the eps while filming.

Personally, I choose to believe this is a bunch of misinformation about Tara being the BSD, so we'll be truly surprised at the episode when it airs. At the very least, I believe any "death" of Tara will be in a dream or otherwise not permanent. Tara is WAAAY too popular, and T/W is too valuable to the storyline, to kill of either woman. Plus, Joss personally is very close to Amber Benson, and has made statements that lead me to believe he won't want her to leave the cast. I think the failure to "elevate" her to "regular" status is just to let him play with us, while he sets someone else up for the BSD.

You never know with these ME guys.

[Sela]

There are many holes that bother me, but I've resigned myself to the fact that spoilers might very well be few and far between from here on out. The rest is just speculation (as if that were'nt obvious enough).

I have similar questions about Tara's death. Does Willow find her immediately after she's been shot? Does Willow go evil as soon as it happens, or is there a time delay where Buffy and Xander sort of swoop in and try to calm her down. I don't know why, but I get this feeling that Willow's not too far from the Summer's homestead when the shooting occurs. I mean it is their "makeup" episode, so I would imagine they wouldn't want to be away from each other.

And also, how COULD Warren mistake Tara for Buffy? There are many, many, many physical differences between the two women. The only way I figure it could happen is if Tara's in Buffy's room for some reason or another, or if something has altered Warren's perception. In any case, I can't imagine there be anything even remotely easy about these Episode 19 scenes.

I want answers, and all I keep getting are more questions.

Where's DSM? I was hoping DSM could shed a little script-y light on this whole thing.

--Sela

[shellybean]

Huh, I never really thought about Amber really getting the go ahead to give that spoiler about the naked love scene thing. You're right, she had to have been given the green light before actually saying it. Maybe they just want to get it out there that Willow and Tara will get back together, so everyone will think its all great and dandy before she dies! Where's the tequila?!

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Willow: "Besides, spells going awry, friends in danger...I'm really nothing special."
Tara: "No, you are"
Willow and Tara's first real conversation - "Hush"

"Hear that baby? You're my always"
Willow to Tara - "Tough Love"

"HEY! You're gonna back off! She said no and thats it, you're not going to make her do something that she doesn't want to. And if you try, you're going to have to go through me. Understood?"
Tara standing up for Willlow and being the protective ex and bad ass - "Older and Far Away"

"Hi Tara, How are you? I was wondering if maybe you want to go out sometime? For coffee? food? kissing and gay love?"
Willow practicing asking Tara out - "Normal Again"

[juri-sempai]

I don't know how.. you know.. relevant it is. But reading the Darla - Julie Benz interview in the March Buffy magazine, she brings up the point that many people didn't know Darla was pregnant until she showed up on Angel's doorstep because: "The writers did that on purpose actually, because they knew people would get hold of scripts. They didn't want it leaked, so they didn't put it in writing."

So... like... it could happen with Buffy stuff too, right?

We know Tara dies. Willow goes bad. And all hell breaks loose. Sure, make the season seem pretty dire. All the good stuff is being saved for episodes 21 and 22. And that's the stuff they're trying to keep secret to give it as maximum a punch as possible.

Not that it takes away the pain from the punch in the gut they've given to us regarding Tara's demise and Willow's turn to evil.

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Reincarnation: the futile attempt to get the milk back into the can

"I'm a blood-sucking fiend! Look at my outfit!"

[BBOvenGuy]

quote:

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Originally posted by Spike'sbestfan:
Personally, I choose to believe this is a bunch of misinformation about Tara being the BSD, so we'll be truly surprised at the episode when it airs. At the very least, I believe any "death" of Tara will be in a dream or otherwise not permanent. Tara is WAAAY too popular, and T/W is too valuable to the storyline, to kill of either woman. Plus, Joss personally is very close to Amber Benson, and has made statements that lead me to believe he won't want her to leave the cast. I think the failure to "elevate" her to "regular" status is just to let him play with us, while he sets someone else up for the BSD.

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Well, I can tell you for certain that Tara does die and it's not a dream. On the other hand, you're right in saying the death may not be permanent. Joss is very fond of Amber and Tara is becoming a more popular character all the time.

And Xita, that's all Amber's been promoting all season, except for the time she was at Sundance promoting the movies that were being shown there. Other than that, it's been Buffy, Buffy, Buffy...

quote:

[Sela]

You know, juri-sempai, I was thinking precisely the same thing. When I read that Julie Benz interview, I immediately thought that it is possible that other scenes have been filmed, or that there are "secret" scripts out there that only a select few have a copy of.

In any case, I don't doubt that Tara dies--that's pretty much the only thing I'm sure of. But I have to agree that Amber's Loveline interview, and well, everything she's done this year, has been Buffy-centric. I think even in her November Loveline appearance she mentioned how she didn't have any other projects coming up aside from Buffy and promoting Chance. That's certainly added to my hope-o-meter.

--Sela

[Spike'sbestfan]

Of course, I have no idea about any of the sources for these spoilers, so there's no way I can evaluate that aspect. These spoilers may be in scripts, or actually have been filmed already, but that doesn't mean we'll see it that way on the broadcast.

As has been pointed out in this forum, there are ways to prevent information from coming out. No one knew that George Clooney's character had returned for Nurse Hathaway's final ER episode, but there it was on TV.

We could see a time reversal or something else that Joss has cooked up which allows Tara to stay on the show.

I firmly believe that W/T are here to stay.

[shellybean]

I agree that I don't doubt at all that Tara will die, but I guess it really is a big mystery as to what will happen in the last 2 eps. I mean we've heard SO much about the eps leading up to them, but nothing about the last 2 episodes of the season. Usually something leaks about them like how season 4 was going to be a dream ep and season 5 was going to have a huge scooby death. But nothing about this. I'm hoping that that's a good thing.
And I totally didn't realize that Dawn did do that whole "GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT!!" thing on both of Buffy's birthdays. That's kinda funny.

------------------
Willow: "Besides, spells going awry, friends in danger...I'm really nothing special."
Tara: "No, you are"
Willow and Tara's first real conversation - "Hush"

"Hear that baby? You're my always"
Willow to Tara - "Tough Love"

"HEY! You're gonna back off! She said no and thats it, you're not going to make her do something that she doesn't want to. And if you try, you're going to have to go through me. Understood?"
Tara standing up for Willlow and being the protective ex and bad ass - "Older and Far Away"

"Hi Tara, How are you? I was wondering if maybe you want to go out sometime? For coffee? food? kissing and gay love?"
Willow practicing asking Tara out - "Normal Again"

[Sela]

I feel the positive energy a-flowin' from you, Spike'sbestfan, and I have to say, I like it, I like it a lot.

--Sela

[april]

hmm, after a crazy weekend day where i had to get up at 9am (which sucked a LOT), i came to catch up on the spoiler thread, and now i'm actually feeling a lot better about the end of the season. why, you ask?

well, angel x's extra spoilage (you can find a link for it at the end of the first post in this thread) and that australian article both indicate that willow goes completely evil and becomes the big bad. if that's true (and angel x has been extremely accurate as of late), then there's NO way everything that's happened will be permanent.

willow is possibly the most popular character on BtVS, she's buffy's best friend, and she's been with the show since day one. it's just impossible that she goes bad and stays that way - people love her too much! and if willow's going to come back from the dark side, i feel very confident that tara's going to come back from the dead. something will happen that undoes all the horrible things that occur at the end of the season. i just know it.

[Spike'sbestfan]

Yes, April, you are so right! You filled in the details that I didn't post. I feel the same way about the Tara and Willow situation. Willow can't stay bad, and Tara can't stay dead!

And Sela, thank you. I knew I felt comfy here with all you good Tara/Willow shippers, and that you wouldn't let these early spoilers bring you down.

[BBOvenGuy]

quote:

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Originally posted by april:
willow is possibly the most popular character on BtVS, she's buffy's best friend, and she's been with the show since day one. it's just impossible that she goes bad and stays that way - people love her too much!

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Not only that, but we've been told by Sam Finn that people who get too deeply into dark magic are consumed to the point where nothing is left. That line wouldn't have been in the script if it wasn't something that was going to threaten Willow once she goes on her rampage. She wouldn't last long enough to be a villain in Season 7.

BTW, just to add a little levity to our dark times, does anyone else hear Carlos Santana when thinking about Willow's dark magic persona? "Got a Black Magic Willow... Got a Black Magic Willow..."

quote:

[SlayerTazz]

Hey Kittens,
This doesn't fit under the spoiler theme, but I couldn't find the right one to put it under (so hopefully someone can fix that or you won't mind it here)...I was playing on KaZaA tonight and there are MP3 clips of Amber on Loveline on it. Just thought I'd share in case anyone was looking for them.

PS - Anyone know where there is a good listing of W/T quotes. I want to change mine, but can't come up with the good ones right now.

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A dream is a wish the heart makes.

Buffy: (about Riley's lunch selection)...A Twinkie! That's his lunch? Oh, he is so gonna be punished.
Willow: Everyone's getting spanked but me.

[juri-sempai]

quote:

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Originally posted by Sela:
And also, how COULD Warren mistake Tara for Buffy? There are many, many, many physical differences between the two women.

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Such as... Tara has hips! Buffy is a very skinny stick.

Tarahips mmmmmmm nice.

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Reincarnation: the futile attempt to get the milk back into the can

"I'm a blood-sucking fiend! Look at my outfit!"quote:

[Corinthian]

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:
There are other threads for OT and I think the daily thread is perfect for this.

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Sorry Xita, I just want to make sure I understand this correctly... is it okay to continue the Everything's Going to be Alright PARTY Cruise Ship on the daily thread alone or can it stand as its own OT thread (both spoiler free of course)?
quote:

[xita]

No, socializing can be done in the daily thread as long as you don't include any spoilers. There will be no new thread about it. We are trying to contain the spoilers to one thread. And the bus can go on in here, just as part of your natural posting, not the purpose for posting itself, does that make sense? I got many complaints from people who were having problems reading the spoiler thread as it was quickly becoming not about spoilers.

[girlwiththebraids]

i would almost understand warren mistaking tara for buffy from behind when buffy's hair was long...just because it's clear that warren is not entirely in his right mind, and that would at least be a similar hair color and length...but IF and only IF tara was in buffy's room, and perhaps partly obscured...thus hiding the ENTIRELY different body type...

it'll be interesting to see, but i think it has to be a total accident of the stray bullet variety, or else it could be a reflexive, "buffy, look out" on tara's part that puts her in the way of the bullet instead of buffy...

braids

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"Is she your sister?"
"She's my everything..."

[willow420]

*Runs out in front of the bus and *

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A.K.A. Liz

Kisses and gay love anyone?

[gf2020hotmail]

quote:

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Originally posted by drlloyd11:
I'm didnt come here to bash Frank (aka spoilerslayer)... But as long as I AM here!..
Its one thing to try to collect spoilers and score them, its quite another to analyize what is coming up based on them and try to be an expert.
Frank has been wrong in his analysis all season (and so I have mostly

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Well he called episode 17 as an alternative reality episode before there was any spoilers as such and it was all based on who the writer was and what he knew about precedding episodes. I thought that was pretty good job of speculating correctly. I myself like the site. I don't have to check 4 boards and 3 sites for spoilers and I agree that there is a formula to the show.

That said...

While I think Tara is BSD, his examples of foreshadowing are a joke. There has been absoutley no buildup to this which is the one thing in my mind that makes me doubt the spoilers about Tara's death. Warren killing her with a gun (do we know it's a gun). No one could possible see that coming and it's a poorly planned plot device, especially from a show that hints at things that happen 2 years later.
quote:

[Corinthian]

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:
And the bus can go on in here, just as part of your natural posting, not the purpose for posting itself, does that make sense? I got many complaints from people who were having problems reading the spoiler thread as it was quickly becoming not about spoilers.

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Clear as crystal, and apologies for any kittens we have offended in any way.

*Corinthian makes an announcement to the patrons of the cruise ship*

Ladies and gentle kitties, we will now be altering our destination to the daily thread. Stops can still be made to pick up passengers in the spoiler thread but I think it best they be quiet pick-ups.

Starfuct, not sure we should set up 'jobs' per se for the cruise ship, I think people will just gravitate to what's needed. But I'm happy to be the first mate to your captain. If you wanna talk off the board some time, I've got Yahoo Messenger (kosterpa@yahoo.com). Best time to reach me is in the evening.

Paul

*Steers the Everythings is Going to be Alright PARTY Cruise Ship with MEGA LOVE to a new port of call -- the daily thread*quote:

[TarotX]

I was over at the B/S spoiler fan forum board and I found this and Thought it was interesting.....

quote:

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Originally posted by Aynaia:
[QB]Possible foreshadowing from Triangle:

Ok, we went over the TR foreshadowing that seems to be coming true. Well if we follow TR shadowing it possibly leads us back to Triangle. Remember the one with Anya's ex troll wreaking havoc in Sunnydale? That one. It is the episode after Riley takes to the skies & says adios.

In TR remember the Giles/Anya exchange behind the counter hiding from the bunnies & thinking they are engaged? Arguing Anya whacks him on the head with the book telling him she feels the need for vengeance upon him and right after that he says he's leaving her. Leaving is the keyword that takes us to Triangle. When the ep opens it is on X/A in bed discussing Riley's leaving. She tells Xander she wants the big bomb clock with the flashing red lights and the clock counting down where you cut the red or green wire & it stops with like 3 tenths of a second but you don't leave. Check, big bomb clock. Ok Willow & Anya argue the entire ep, troll released from crystal wackiness ensues, Spike cops a feel, the triangle & the troll end up back at Magic Box. Oh yeah Giles is absent in England, left at beginning of ep. Willow gathering books ( pre-troll & xander arrival), relocation spells, suspension spells, spells to make him really sleepy. While arguing Willow tells Anya to to look for spells on dimensional portals too.
Ok, now enter troll & Xander, troll beats up Xander & tells him as a reward he will only kill one of his women but he has to choose. Xander thinking that that is insane troll logic refuses. Troll breaks his arm & he still refuses so troll says fine he will kill him then. At this point Anya says No & offers herself in his place. Enter Buffy & Tara buttkicking ensues, troll goes poof to what is hopefully a troll dimension hugs & kisses. Magic Box totally wrecked, Bronze totally wrecked. Giles comes back, "Hate to think what it would have been like if I had been gone for longer than three days!" Discuss watchers, the end.
Ok, that wore me out, anyone care to help, it is now time to disect. Common points from now & Triangle:
1- Xander leaving (big bomb clock)
2- Dimensional portals
3- Giles absent from town
4- Willow worried about Anya going vengeance demon on Xander.
5- Anya saying Willow closer to being vengeance demon cause D'Hoffryn gave her his talisman & offered her An's old job.
6- Willow & Anya in danger
7- Anya sacrificing herself for Xander (note that Willow did not)
8- Xander refusing to choose between the 2, could be important.
9- this might also be something cause it's kinda strange but Willow trying spells says (in Latin) -Instrument of revenge, fabled weapon, arise, arise,..

Ok, can anyone help me see if this makes sense by coming up with theories, I will also try to see if I can discern a pattern. I shoulda done that first but I'm tired & don't wanna have to retype all of this mess! I'm really going to be upset if I get into this one & it ends up nothing! If that happens I can guaratee no amusing posts tomorrow! Good luck![/QB]

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http://www.forums4fans.com/ultimatebb.p ... 000717&p=3
quote:

[daydreamer]

hello kittens! I'm sort of a newbie here. but i've been a lurker now for almost a year. first of all, i just wanna say that i've never seen discussions as intelligent and enlightening as i see here on this board. and i don't doubt that you all are really cool people. i'm a w/t fan. so i'm as much affected by the spoilers as you are.

lots of guesses and speculations have already been made. i've read thru all the stuff you gals & guys have written on the board. while reading thru most of the stuff, it just occured to me that part of growing up means that you do the right thing not just because of an outside motivator but because it is also what's good for you. many have speculated about a reset button and the scoobies not remembering anything that had happened to them. and many have already said that not remembering the consequences of your actions is not growing up at all.

okay, i'm rambling here but what i'm trying to say is that getting back tara has been a great motivator for willow to stay out of the dark magicks. and from what we can see from the spoilers, tara dying led to dark magicks willow again. so i just thought that maybe the dark magick willow arc would be a great way to show grown up willow when she realizes that dark magicks is not the way to go and decides to finally turn her back on it even without tara.

i don't know if i made sense here but i do hope you get what i mean. you all seem to do better. okay, back to lurking for me.

and of course, i'm all for the reset button. or there will be no end to my depression. ok, bye for now.

okay, if i keep on with this, i'll be forever editing my post. reading everything here on the spoiler thread and hearing amber on loveline, i'm pretty positive now that tara lives and she and willow be truly in love and forever. ok, that it. i hope.

[This message has been edited by daydreamer (edited March 17, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by daydreamer (edited March 17, 2002).]

[shellybean]

I TOTALLY agree with april and spikesbestfan. If Willow does become the big bad, there is NO WAY that she'll stay evil! I have no doubt in my mind that she'll come back to the good side. I also agree that what Sam said about there being nothing left of those Shaman's who got engulfed in dark magic had to have some meaning behind it. If Willow gets too into the dark stuff then she'll become nothing like them, and that's just not happening. So like I said before, I don't doubt that Tara will be killed and Willow will go bad, I just think that by the end it'll all be worked out.
I also didn't really think about how Tara gets mistaken for Buffy. I just thought blonde hair, but totally didn't think about body type or the fact that Buffy's hair isn't even close to Tara's length anymore. I was thinking that maybe Warren see's Buffy in the window or something and just starts firing and accidentally kills Tara. But then I remembered that all the spoilers say that Willow finds Tara. So I'm thinking that Tara is probably home alone or alone in a room when she gets shot. Maybe they hear it and find Tara or just find her later.
And a few of my favorite Willow/Tara quotes are my signatures. There are so many that I like I'm going to change them often.

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Willow: "Besides, spells going awry, friends in danger...I'm really nothing special."
Tara: "No, you are"
Willow and Tara's first real conversation - "Hush"

"Hear that baby? You're my always"
Willow to Tara - "Tough Love"

"HEY! You're gonna back off! She said no and thats it, you're not going to make her do something that she doesn't want to. And if you try, you're going to have to go through me. Understood?"
Tara standing up for Willlow and being the protective ex and bad ass - "Older and Far Away"

"Hi Tara, How are you? I was wondering if maybe you want to go out sometime? For coffee? food? kissing and gay love?"
Willow practicing asking Tara out - "Normal Again"

[tommo]

Okay, as someone who likes reading the board and doesn't particularly want to trail through pages of the spoiler thread that aren't actually spoilers or spoiler related, can I make a plea?

Can the bus break down and be abandoned somewhere along the highway?

It's rather distracting.

Thanks.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[AutumnT]

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:
No, socializing can be done in the daily thread as long as you don't include any spoilers

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Thanks Xita. The daily thread has always been a great place for that. And if people just want to talk back and forth there is always email. Really the best method for personal conversations.

Now I hope we can get back to the business of spoilers and discussion of them.

The thing that has interested me is the apparent recent flap over the fact that there are a lot of conflicting spoilers out about episode 20. That actually does not surprise me and I do not think it is due to fake scripts rather than rewrites. I was looking the other night at the early sides I got to "Hell's Bells" and while the gist of the episode was the same, radical diaglogue and editing changes were made from the first draft. Radical. It's important to remember that while the big picture usually remains the same the journey to it may change.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.quote:

[Katie]

Hi. Just a couple of points on Tara and how this situation would not have completed her character arc.

* The issue of her mothers use of magic and/or death.

* Her psychic abilities, mentioned in the Willowhand incident and her "guiding" in Restless.

I fear that Tara will be used as "spirit guide" in S7, where she will communicate with Willow and/or Buffy. I am sure the circumstances of Tara's mothers death will be addressed but will Tara be alive when this happens? It is hard to believe that Tara would not have already told Willow what happened, and thats why I am worried of a flashback or vision type scenario.

I just want our girls to be happy!

[shellybean]

I would totally hate it if Tara came back in the whole ghost/guide capacity. I ranted and raved about how when characters die and stay dead, they never really come back and stay back before so I won't go on again. Its just that I can't picture Tara lasting a whole season as a guide. I hope she actually comes back in the alive sense so she and Willow could be together. And I'm sure we all want our girls to be happy.

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Willow: "Besides, spells going awry, friends in danger...I'm really nothing special."
Tara: "No, you are"
Willow and Tara's first real conversation - "Hush"

"Hear that baby? You're my always"
Willow to Tara - "Tough Love"

"HEY! You're gonna back off! She said no and thats it, you're not going to make her do something that she doesn't want to. And if you try, you're going to have to go through me. Understood?"
Tara standing up for Willlow and being the protective ex and bad ass - "Older and Far Away"

"Hi Tara, How are you? I was wondering if maybe you want to go out sometime? For coffee? food? kissing and gay love?"
Willow practicing asking Tara out - "Normal Again"

[cachaco]

shellybean and Katie, have to say I'm a little worried about the ghost/guide possibility, it falls into that icky, awful category of "things that could conceivably make Tara staying dead even remotely plausible given what's come before." The only good that could come of that would be finding a way to bring her back as a main plotline of next season - maybe The Powers That Be from Angel could intercede or something....if Tara and Anya were to both die and stay dead, wouldn't that be a whopper of a S7/series finale, the ultimate anti-Joss move, to have the doomed 'ships of the three core Scoobs reunited at the end...

[edited to add: Mods, please let me know if this kind if spec is off-limits. Thanks!]

Overall, I'm pretty optimistic that there'll be a reset - I mean, come on, the last ep is called "Real" - but there are moments of panic. But hey, that's what the Kitten is for! It's great how we've all pulled together, and how things have calmed down so much within a week...waiting for news, waiting, waiting...

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PASTURE: See... that is, where you are a mockup. With I think on..., you grew up to what, and... then regard I, which you form... it me are proud. It educates me to love you more.

[This message has been edited by cachaco (edited March 17, 2002).]

[Still Waters Run Deep]

quote:

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Originally posted by maudmac:
...... the spoilage implies that Willow finds Tara's body and takes off after Warren. This suggests that Buffy wasn't around when Tara was shot.........
The hole that's bothering me most today is what happens to Tara's body? Does everyone just run off toward The Trainwreck and leave the poor girl lying there?

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Ok maybe posting out of turn here,and wishful thinking on my part, but......

Is'nt it a stock scenario in just about any drama, that someone finds the body of a loved one and goes off on a trail of vengence...only to find out that the 'body' was:
1] not who they thought it was [dead at a distance]
2]not dead, only apparently so [they did'nt check]
3] not dead but unconscious [the old bullet wound to the head, but actually a graze]

Ok, for stock scenario, read cliche...but it is a possibility.

I'm not a paid up member of the film and drama writers guild, but could someone either back up this observation, or refute it please.

I want to be sure of my place on the bus

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love and kisses

Still Waters Run Deep

" Hi!..um..aw...shit...he he he....'Scuz me..er.. I did'nt mean to..er....expose myself to.. ,ya know..public...*groan* "

Amber...quote:

[Katie]

cachaco - Yes I am trying to stay positive, but quite frankly I have NO idea what will happen in eps 21/22. Whatever the writers decide to do, no matter how many people they upset, they will try to justify it at the end of the season. Without seeing all of this season, we are missing the bigger picture.

I take hope in the fact that Tara has not finished her character development. I just don't want it to be a retrospective type ghost ending.