Top ten signs youre reading a bad fanfic

[VampNo12]

Loco about where I saw the shudder pairing of Buffy/Dawn I remember seeing some stories with this pairing on fanfiction.net, as well as a site I happily blocked from my mind (ie don't remember the name). It had stories with W/T, with Buffy/Dawn pairing included in the fic, which also morphed into sex scenes of Dawn/Tara, Dawn/Willow. Really just shudder worthy fic, making me wonder about these people who come up with these type of pairings.

[frenchrose888]

Well to be totally honest, I don't think a fic that pushes a totally non-canon based ship in a 'serious', non-parodic way can actually be good - or if it is good, it'll be because the writer maybe has a good style, but then it won't really be fanfic anymore, it's almost a new work of fiction, having nothing whatsoever to do with the Buffyverse.



For instance, if someone tomorrow wrote a, I don't know, Jesse/Lorne fic with a great storyline, good dialogue and so on, the main interest, that is the characterization, would be missing. Because that specific ship is totally impossible and out of character in the Buffyverse.



To me, that is the main interest of fanfic : to expand on characters and storylines we alredy know and love, and take to time to get to know them better, and to bask in our love of them, and in a piece of their universe. It can be angsty, fluffy, sexy, funny, actiony or landscapey or all these things at once (*wink* Ruth, I love you too, in a french prison way*g*), the reason that will get me started is the fact that I know these people, and I expect to read about them and not about some ersatz of them that will fit the writer's own idea.



And that , to me, is true about all fanfiction, and especially with WT. There's nothing that irks me more than a fic where the girls are changed beyond recognition, and if you like switched their names to Jennifer and Cynthia or whatver, no one would actually be able to tell the difference, if you know what I mean.



And that's why I so admire the people who actually get it right - and even more so those like Dreiser who can write such a parody as we mentioned earlier, and still have the characters be actual possible extensions or mirror-images of the ones on the show.



Rant over.



And Rane, I totally agree with you, I cannot stand it when in a 'serious', non-comedic fic, everyone suddenly turns out to be gay. *shrug*



To tell you the truth, I'm a tough reader, and I'm not tha easily impressed, that's why I'm so proud to have such talents as Ruth, Rane, Sass, Tigg and so many more her on Pens.*g*



Rose

'Magic, thy name is Tara.' - Mariacomet, The Stone Circle.

[Magrat70]

Okay just read a peice of fic that was bad and wrong in so so many ways. If I just tell you that the pairing was Willow/Clem????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

These five words in my head scream "are we having fun yet?"

Chad Kroeger

[Tulipp]

Sparrow....that's good.



I also saw the one that has Willow and Miss Kitty--frightening.



But I think the scariest one I've scene was *drum roll*



spillowangelia



Seriously. It's really, really disturbing.

[vix84]

The worst are the fics that, in the middle of a smutty scene between a canon couple (take Willow and Tara, for example), suddenly, horrifically!, add characters like Clem, Dawn and Jonathon without warning!



One second it's all about tingly pink nipples, then suddenly a leprosy-infected penis enters the equation!



And you spill your coffee, shut the dialogue window, and shriek to the heavens. But the image is engrained forever in your poor little head.

-------------------------

Willow: Okay, what in the frilly heck is going on?

Tara: Maybe we dreamed it.

Willow: Right. Right. Wrong! Different brains.

Tara: Oh yeah.



Afterlife

[tommo]

Well, there are people who get their kicks out of creating totally insane pairings. And good luck to them. Thankfully, they won't be seen on Pens, phew.

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"The only thing going for me -
were those moments - just
moments - when Tara would look at
me and I was wonderful."

[Dumbsaint]

Quote:

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Well to be totally honest, I don't think a fic that pushes a totally non-canon based ship in a 'serious', non-parodic way can actually be good - or if it is good, it'll be because the writer maybe has a good style, but then it won't really be fanfic anymore, it's almost a new work of fiction, having nothing whatsoever to do with the Buffyverse.

---

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I have seen some serious non-canon pairings that I have really enjoyed. True, the world of fanfiction is inundated with silly, badly written couplings, but still, doesn't mean there aren't good ones out there. And especially in the case of slash fic, part of the whole reason that the genre exists is to subversively protest the fact that there are virtually no same-sex couples in TV and film- but plenty of homoerotic subtext. And in the case of Faith and Buffy, true some people may not dig them as a couple, but come on... the lesbo subtext was literally written into the script. Hee. It's there, people. Watch "Bad Girls" and tell me it isn't there.



I'd go off on a tangent, but I fear it would be woefully off-topic. Just this once I'll spare Xita having to take me over her knee.



Pity. Heh.

"It's not real. I mean, there are no vampires, there are no witches. Well, there are Wiccans, but they're not making out with Alyson, so..." -Amber Benson

[tommo]

I wrote Faith and Cordelia. Doesn't get much more non-canon than that. Sigh.

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"The only thing going for me -
were those moments - just
moments - when Tara would look at
me and I was wonderful."

[Dumbsaint]

Hee. That was the tangent I didn't go off on.



I happen to rahter like that pairing myself.

"It's not real. I mean, there are no vampires, there are no witches. Well, there are Wiccans, but they're not making out with Alyson, so..." -Amber Benson

[MadeinNZ]

I find any Dawn or Giles pairing disturbing. Don't even go there. And then there are the group sex fics. You know Angel/Spike/Tara/Willow etc. Ewwww.

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Buffy: I'd like to find Willow and Xander
Joyce: Will you be slaying?
Buffy: Only if they give me lip

[frenchrose888]

Dumbsaint - first off, yes Bad Girls, I'm so totally with you on this one, it's there. Its. So. Right. There.*g*



Now, I feel I should perhaps nuance or further explain what I meant, and react to some parts of your post.



re: What you said about one of the primary purposes of slash fic being to compensate to extreme lack of same-sex couples on screen - again, you are totally right, and I would never mean to imply that this sort of fic shouldn't be written, for I think that it is an great, important way to express oneself and to expand on ideas some shows may suggest but then shy away from. I'm not implying that this sort of fic isn't valuable on a literary level, or that it isn't entertaining. What I mean is this : if the writer can 'sell' this pairing to me based on the actual characters and within the most basic rules of the universe in which the fic takes root, for example the Buffyverse, then great, I'll read and go 'what a good btvs fanfic'.

Now, if the same writer writes a great story but it features a totally non-canon based couple, I'll probably go 'wow, what a great story', but inevitably, to me it will be much more detached from the Buffyverse. Thus, I'll enjoy it on another level. That is what I meant when I said that the further away the writer strays from canon, the less I will see it as an actual fanfic and more like an original literary work.

And most times in my case, I find that the ones that are totally detached from the universe in which it is supposed to take its roots tend to be less enjoyable to me - but I'm aware that that is only my personal feeling and experience as a reader, that it doesn't necessarily reflect the majority, and it's also probably because I'm a very very picky person, especially as a reader, and sometimes a hard critic, and perhaps a bit of a snob about BtVS.



I didn't mean to disminish any sort of writing - I meant to point out that I, as a reader, am not the ideal audience for some forms of writing.



I didn't mean to start a confrontation, and I apologize if I offended anyone in any way.



Rose

'Magic, thy name is Tara.' - Mariacomet, The Stone Circle.

[slayer747]

Amen to that one, Rose!



and may i just add that the word "fan" in "fanfiction" is there for a reason. so yeah, these writers who give us ridiculous pairings better not claim to be fanfic writers. they are writers, but they don't write fanfic...they write something else.



for me, anyway, the number 1 sign that tells me that i am reading a bad fanfic is when i see the pairings. well, in an AU where B/F are paired together, it is okay for me... as long as the characterizations are real. what i cannot stand are those of, say, B/W ... those are just "Ew!"



B/W pairings are super icky to me and i just cannot conceive of it (especially when pushed through an NC-17 rating). Because if I accept the possibility of it, it's like me doing my best friend... which is, kind of like, incest. yuck! (we really have the friendship of Buffy and Willow... minus of course Buffy's relationship disasters and Willow having Tara... I'm still looking for mine)



and i have actually read the story where Willow was in a coma and Tara had sex with Xander (it was mentioned in a previous post) and i remember myself yelling in front of my PC... i was so upset. the author had a nice style but it was just wrong!



oh, I have also encountered the site dedicated to Willow and Giles... made me feel like the world really is coming to an end!



and NC-17 fics of Dawn and another scooby... WTF? whatever happened to basic human decency??? we should have laws against stuff like these!!!





ok, rant over! it really is a good thing that we have EFlamey, Wiccanways and the Pens. at least, we kittens can sleep peacefully at night having not to worry about stumbling over a ridiculous fic as long as these sites are here. and speaking of sleep, i better sleep... was up all night writing a paper (and reading fanfic on the side)

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"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[frenchrose888]

Quote:

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these writers who give us ridiculous pairings

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I wouldn't have used that word exactly, but I wanted to add that obviously what pairings do or do not fall into that category is pretty much up to each reader's own tastes.

'Magic, thy name is Tara.' - Mariacomet, The Stone Circle.

[The Rose24]

I read a story where Faith rapes Willow in "Choices" after Faith cut her with that knife," and then Willow does her in return. Willow also goes to see Faith in the hospital. That was an awful fic!

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.

Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Willow: Hi, um Tara. I was wondering maybe you want to go out some time for coffee? food? Kisses and gay love?

[Mrs Vertigo]

Originally posted by The Rose:



"I read a story where Faith rapes Willow in "Choices" after Faith cut her with that knife," and then Willow does her in return."



Good god that’s wrong on SO many levels. Faith and Willow? Willow and something that even resembles s&m? I hope I’m not the only one seeing the big flashy Hell Has Just Frozen Over, Please Buckle Your Seatbelts and Remain Seated Until the Apocalypse is Over signs.



I’m not one much for the non-cannon anywhere, but the Buffy/Other Woman really set my rant mechanisms off. I mean, c’mmon, the girl is Ms. Hetero of the American Television, let it go. Like see the face on her in New Moon Rising, when Willow came out to her? The girl’s her best friend and still Buffy looked like she’s half a breath away from giving wholehearted shriek (not that I’m saying she’s homophobic on any level, she was just in shock mode. She’s *waaay* over that by now). So Rose, I’m totally with you on the whole ‘its just not BtVS’ view. It might be great fiction, but I find it hard to call it Fanfiction.



And I’d also like to bring up the subject of god awful sex scenes in fanfics. One of the funniest things – of the very sad verity of funny, that is – is when in the middle of a steaming, full-on NC17 naughtiness extravaganza, way past the name-screaming and removal of undergarment by using mainly teeth, the author suddenly gets cold feet and announces that Character A’s (until recently very bold) hand has found its way into Character B’s happy womanly place or her special spot... By all things holy that’s just bad!



EDITED coz i'm bad with computers...

Edited by: Mrs Vertigo at: 9/7/02 11:08:37 am

[Big Dummy]

Since I'm a complete and utter fanfic whore (at least when it comes to W/T) I often find myself searching the net for other places to find it, cause I could (and have ) read fanfic all day long. The problems I always have are going to sites that proclaim to be about W/T love (at least this is what I get from the homepage), but then list all these stories that have pairings I have absolutely no desire to see. Like, I'll click on the W/T link, and suddenly see this list of stories that have Willow leaving Tara for Buffy, or the three of them getting together, or something else that's awful to me.



I read one that followed canon for a while in terms of how W/T's realtionship progressed and how close they were as friends, and showed them sharing their first kiss. But after the kiss Willow was freaked and went all "not-gay", and wound-up getting together with Xander who had conveniently stumbled across them kissing and subsequently "realized" that he should be with Willow.



I agree that what's considered a ridiculous pairing is a matter of personal opinion, but I hate going to sites that appear safe and wind-up ambushing me with pairings I don't want to read.

[MadeinNZ]

I have a problem with fics that depict rape as part of the story. I read one where Willow is raped but still gets together with Tara. While the story followed canon, I felt really uneasy about the whole rape concept. Come to think of it, this is probably my own hangup, rather than bad fic. I just hate to think of characters that I love having to go through that horror.

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Buffy: I'd like to find Willow and Xander
Joyce: Will you be slaying?
Buffy: Only if they give me lip

[Pipsqueak]

MadeinNZ, I have a problem with rape fics too. I just don't like reading that stuff. Not to mention that 95% of it is totally unbelievable in the first place. Now, granted, there are some fics in which it would be appropriate. For example, in a fic about Faith that explores her past, it makes sense that some form of sexual assault might take place in the story, because we got hints of that from the show itself.



But what I really really really can't stand in smutfics -- even worse than the "10 different characters in one room all getting it on with each other" crap, or the "special womanly place" phrases -- is when one character is raped by another, but during the course of the event finds that s/he enjoys it. Not only is this sick and disgusting, but it suggests that rape isn't all that bad, because she'll fall in love with your sexual prowess if you just stick it to her long enough. How often in real life are people actually "turned on" while someone is raping them? Look up the definition of the word, people. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this situation play itself out in a fic, and I don't even read that much fanfic. What kind of idiot thinks that this is entertaining?

~~~~~~~~


"We're just ... stupid." -- Buffy, on Season 6
Check out my Buffy videos at http://www.pipsqueaky.com

[tommo]

Quote:

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"special womanly place" phrases

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Ah yes. The wonderful metaphors. Can't get enough of them. Ahem. Not.

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"Squish. Squish. Squish."

[slayer747]

rose,



ridiculous -- dawn/? in nc-17... thatt's what i meant...

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"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[the vamp nurd]

W/T are the pair I love................

I'd be the first one to admit, Dawn/Buffy Willow/Buffy Dawn/Tara makes me shiver.

Joyce/Tara

That is so wrong. [the Vamp nurd gets on her soap box]

I admit I've read W/B pairings, I can cope with some [the ones that don't have Willow leaving Tara for Buffy hello brain dead?]

And I would never put VW/W that is way too disturbing, VW/T as well.

[Note to kittens, I have done a story that VW wants to turn sire Tara and Willow, but never does. Willow and Tara's love is too strong, and plus VW gets turned into something else].

My rant is over, adios.

The vamp nurd

[PF9037Towie]

OH MY! I believe you've run accross some very horrible fiction in your lifetime. Will you be needing theropy for this? Very funny list, I'm almost sure there are plenty of other signs as well, but I'll agree these are the perfect Top 10.



Thank you for the laugh.

*****

Tara



Look I have a signature!

[Sheridan]

Now given that buffy wasn't that much older than Dawn is now when she slept with Angel I'm wondering if what makes the Dawn/whoever fics so disturbing is the fact that MT really is 16 whereas SMG was only playing at being 17.Also if a writer is based outside the US the laws are different so they may see Dawn as a legitimate subject, though for me the words 'not with a ten foot pole' come to mind.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[MadeinNZ]

I'm not sure what it is about Dawn. Maybe its because she's portrayed as the 'baby' of the group. And there's a sweetness to her that makes her seem a bit younger.



The other reason is that some of the pairings seem a bit 'incestuous' as they all treat her like a little sister.



I'm not sure if I'd have the same problem if the pairing was with someone outside the scoobies. I'm a bit more comfortable with that.

------------------------------


Buffy: I'd like to find Willow and Xander
Joyce: Will you be slaying?
Buffy: Only if they give me lip

[tommo]

You mean like, Dawn and someone her own age?



That's the only Dawn pairing I'll accept. She's officially a minor and you know, there's more to life than sex.



God, I can't believe I just said that...

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"Squish. Squish. Squish."

[Sheridan]

Quote:

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You mean like, Dawn and someone her own age?



That's the only Dawn pairing I'll accept. She's officially a minor and you know, there's more to life than sex

---

I think you're quite right there Ruth. About the age thing, not the sex obviously.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[MadeinNZ]

Definitely someone her own age. And Ruth, I can't believe you said that either. More to life than sex? That can't be right. Have you been drinking again?

------------------------------


Buffy: I'd like to find Willow and Xander
Joyce: Will you be slaying?
Buffy: Only if they give me lip

Edited by: MadeinNZ at: 9/12/02 6:28:06 pm

[Paigeosity]

The fanfics that got to me the most:

1) I read a fic where Willow got Tara turned into a vamp after seeing red with the help of Angel. It boasted the fact it was W/T with T/A in a platonic friendship in the pairing part. But, after wasting an hour reading the fic and after Tara returned to Willow, she left to go back to L.A. and Angel. Yeah right I was angry for like three days.

2) Dawn got raped Willow checked it out led to bad things. God like that would happen do these people even watch the damn show. I mean one episode and you would realize these behaviors aren't at all Willow and or Tara who watched these going ons.

3) Another makes me say icky is Oz/Giles I found. Willow walked in or something. It was after he left. Willow seemed like she accepted it.

4) I found a Buffy/faith one that I was really enjoying then other couples were the now married Willow/Tara and Xander and Anya. Then they threw in a Oz/Dawn and off I was running very much in the way of the woods.One stupid paring can destroy a fic for a reader.

5) A couple waky ones I read (I'm fairly sure the author was joking) we're set in highschool. One was B and F who, as a team, seduced poor innocent Willow. Another was F/W/C I can't even begin to explain it.

6) Everyone is having all types of sex with everyone else. At the same time.

Now I need a drum roll for this is possibly the most perverse and scary fanfic I have ever read in my entire fanfic reading career. Willow/Jenny/Giles I need not explain this one mostly cause it makes me want to ralph and my keyboard needs no such mess.



In conclusion my fellow kittens the world out there is scary in ways not even I can explain. There are weird people (no offense to those actually normal people who think of themselves as weird) all over the place writing weird things. The only way to stay away from these "weird" things is to stay near the Kitten board and places the Kittens accept(ie Wiccan Ways, Extra Flamey, kitten hosted websites.) Plus the writing itself is way better here than anywhere else. The authors build a story that is actually believable without setting up the story line in a paragraph.



So while this is way too long I believe at least some of it made some sort of sense.



Love,

Paige-I take too long to explain things-osity

[saule77]

I have read the first one you mentioned as well, Paigeosity. And although the pairing T/A is one I would very much like to have never known about (shivers), if it floats someone's boat somewhere, fine.



JUST DON'T NOMINATE THE BLOODY FIC FOR BEST W/T FIC!!!



Because that's how I came across the story. (Can't remember when or where). An a Willow site hosting fanfic awards for all kind of W/other pairings. So I went straight through to the W/T section as I shall never settle for any less and found THAT...



I still haven't got over it.

And to think that Answering Darkness was nominated in the same category...

"You are Willow Rosenberg, vixen-y lighter of the flame and keeper of my heart."

(Camp Flutie by Rane)

[littlecrazy80]

I´ve read a fic where Willow and Tara paid Spike for having sex with Tara. This one really made me shiver. I could never imaging them doing such a thing.

But I think one of the worst fics I´ve ever read was when Willow got raped by Spike and Angel. That was really disturbing.



*lil´c*

Unter den Blinden ist der Einäugige König.