BtVS/WT (Angry) Rant Thread

[bytrsuite]

kyraroc's message:

This is a thread for angry, bitter rants about any on-topic subject.

Please do not post serious threats to any person or any posts which would violate the Terms of Use of the hosting board or the kitten board FAQ.

Moderators, if you feel this thread is unnecessary, too inflammatory, or contrary to the principles of the kitten board, please feel free to delete it.

But I can't go to the "There's Always Hope" thread any more because I don't believe there's any hope any more so going there just makes me sad.

And I don't want to go to the "Support Thread for Spoiler Whores" because many of the things I want to complain about aren't about spoilers because they've already happened, and anyway I don't really want support - I just want to vent.

So I thought a place where people could feel free to write in all caps, to rage against what's currently going on, and to feel safe to scream irrationally all they want without having anyone complain about their negative energy or over-the-top comments might be helpful to me, and possibly others as well.

If you don't want to read a lot of negative posts, dislike bile, or don't want to hear it, I strongly recommend you do not read this thread.

I'll start with a short one of my own.

I can't believe I was defending this season a few months ago. I can't believe I was firmly in the wait-and-see camp. Well, I did wait and see. And what I saw was ANTI-GAY CRAP IT WOULDN'T HAVE SURPISED ME TO FIND IN A 1950'S WOMEN'S PRISON EXPLOITATION MOVIE OR A PULP NOVEL WITH A TITLE LIKE "BAD GIRLS - THEY GAVE IN TO THEIR UNNATURAL LUSTS". WHAT I SAW WAS A SHOW WHICH ABANDONED ALL PRETENSE OF TACT, TASTE, SENSITIVITY, AND COMPREHENSION TO DELIVER US A CHEAP RATINGS PLOY IN THE FORM OF AN OVERDONE PLOT BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD MAKE ONE OF THE CHARACTERS LOOK "COOL". Do they honestly think we've never *seen* a "good" character on a show turn "dark" before? No, this in no way resembles, off the top of my head . . . OnTVHerodfromIClaudiusInMoviesBoromirfrom LordoftheRingsInBooksWickhamfromPrideandPrejudiceInComics TwoFacefromBatmanOnStageSweeneyToddfromSweeneyTodd not to mention Angel on their OWN FREAKIN' SHOW PLUS EVERY SOAP OPERA EVER MADE ANYWHERE EVER? WAS IT WORTH *THIS*?

I started watching the show because of Willow and Tara. And then they did this. I feel used.

--- KR

[jixer]

Hello Kittens-

I went to my local Apple outlet and looked at the new things I can't afford. I looked at the spiffy new G-5 with the huge screen and tried Quicktime Movie trailers. Guess which one was the only checked off one. So I clicked on it and the sales guy said "I've heard that music fifty times today."

Gack! What a revolting part of living in an interconnected world. Beyond that my library has 'lost' or has on long hold lists all but the season sux and severed DVDs, which were donated. Perhaps I should take that hopeful sign.


Jixer

[Sheridan]

Gack! What a revolting part of living in an interconnected world. Beyond that my library has 'lost' or has on long hold lists all but the season sux and severed DVDs, which were donated. Perhaps I should take that hopeful sign.

I would, it implies that the owner couldn't sell them so ended up having to get them away, I should imagine that in a few months there will be a few copies of 'Serenity' DVD's joining them...

[sam7777]

I remember a few months back when I helped a friend to get rid of his BUffy DVD sets. He had gotten seasons 1-4 but never watched them. He asked me if I was interested as the "buffy fan" but I wasn't. Shopped them around but they really weren't worth much. One place told us that stuff was passe and another that it didn't sell so they didn't want any more copies. Eventually, we traded them in to Penny Lane and for store credit and got "Band Of Brothers".

At my local Borders, Buffy stuff is dissappearing faster than coffee. They always have huge stacks of the magazine which don't appear to sell. In the teen section, they have tons of Charmed books versus about 5-6 buffy/angel. As Tim has been saying all along, merchandising has died for the franchise.

Given the bad blood between Josswad and series stars SMG and DB, I don't anticipate a reunion show any time soon.

[Sheridan]

. In the teen section, they have tons of Charmed books versus about 5-6 buffy/angel. As Tim has been saying all along, merchandising has died for the franchise.

I think a factor with the books in addition to a disenchanted audience is the way Joss so definitively closed things off in both shows, meaning there wasn't much room for a continuation in the way that there is with say the Star Trek books, they have had major plot arcs and even new characters that carry the story on beyond TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager. No one wants to write stories where the best characters have already been killed off or forced into situations the writer doesn't believe, what decent writer could seriously buy willow and 'the dead president'?

[Garner]

Sheridan, that's effectively what Chris Golden said. After the crap that happened in Season Sux, what is there to write about that Josswad would allow to happen? Certainly not a Tara returns story. And the characters were so distorted that would make writers who thought they knew what the characters were about and who they were recoil from doing anything more. Josswad not only ruined the series with sux and severed, but effectively destroyed the universe as well. Now that takes a talent for badness! At least in Pens we can read stuff where the "canon" can be ignored for the drek and drivel we all know it is.

Garner

[sam7777]

Agreed. They really painted themsleves into a corner with bad writing and plotting. This is what happens when the creator runs out of ideas and refuses to let someoneelse carry on or even input new ideas. I think that Star Trek lasted as long as it did partly because they picked up ideas from the cast and didn't rely solely on the writing staff to keep things going though I do think they overdid the franchise in the end.

On another note Jennifer Garner is pregnant tnad the show plans to work around it. Quite a difference from "feminist" Josswad's treatment of Charisma.

BTW Is it just me or is the last post date for the Litterbox a bit wonky:
Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm

1969 is the year that appears on http://thekittenboard.com/

[Sheridan]

This come more under the heading of; 'they have to be kidding' I was in Forbidden Planet book browsing and saw a jacket pinned to the wall under coming soon and had to look twice to convince myself I was seeing it. It was called 'Queen of the Slayers' with a large picture of Buffy overlaid on what I think was the Coluseum in Rome and the blurb was 'Sunnydale was only the warm up'. There wasn't a story description but that was probably a blessing. Is there anyone, anyyone, who actually wants to read a continuation? Buffy is dead why won't it just lie down?

[WebWarlock]

Nancy Holder wrote it.

I can't remember if she ever did anything to piss me off before.

Chris Golden had spoken highly of her before and since this book doesn't involve Willow or Tara I am more apt to ignore it.

Warlock

[Sheridan]

...since this book doesn't involve Willow or Tara I am more apt to ignore it.

Unfortunately having read the blurb on Amazon I'm not so sure they are going to leave Willow out of it:

Willow's magickal distribution of the Slayer essence has left girls across the world discovering the full extent of their latent power. Giles races to reorganise the remnants of the Watchers Council, while the Scoobies relocate to Europe. In Rome, Buffy is drawn to a charismatic figure known as The Immortal. But then comes word that the novice slayers are being coerced to join the self-styled Queen of the Slayers - an awesome evil who wants to claim the intoxicating Slayer essence for herself. Sent to Africa to learn more about the origins of the Slayer essence, Xander returns with chilling news. There is not enough good in the world to counteract the overbundance of evil, and that far from being averted, the Apocalypse is drawing much too near. Alliances are formed and loyalties betrayed as it comes down to slayer versus slayer, leading to an ultimate battle of champions from Buffy's past and present. And then an unimaginable gift arrives...

[sam7777]

Nancy Holder is no friend to the Kittens. She was heard to have said something snarky about a couple of Kittens when they were in a line to have Amber sign something (she was next to Amber). She's also completely untalented and her stuff is utter crap. Buffy merchandising may not be gone but it is quickly fading away. Shelf space at my local bookstores for this shite just gets smaller and smaller. With the shows off the aired and having moved on, this process will only accelerate.

[WebWarlock]

While I took a certain amount of glee reducing Yvonne Navarro to sounding like a ranting little child my desire is just not there anymore.

Sure I am no fan of Holder but she is hardly important now if the only gig she can get is shelling out this crap.

Warlock

[sam7777]

I think it's only right that Kittens know that Holder has been negative towards them in a way that Navarro specifically has not. What they do with the knowledge is up to them. I don't read Holder's shite because I though she was a bad writer before I heard anything about her and the Kittens. That is just another reason. Never read any of Navarro's stuff and never will. Her whining just makes it easier to ignore.

..since this book doesn't involve Willow or Tara I am more apt to ignore it.

I can ignore it even it it has W/T because W/T simply don't exist in ME books except for Chris Golden's stuff and he is done with them. No one who cares about W/T will do ME shite any more IMHO. W/T are only in Pens for me.

[WebWarlock]

Posted to the Eden boards, re Queen of the Slayers.

The closing of the Sunnydale Hellmouth causes the one in Cleveland to kick into overdrive-good and evil have to balance in the world. Faith, Robin Wood and a group of slayers, including Rona and Vi are dispatched. Buffy, Giles, and the rest of the gang head to London to reform the Watcher's Council and train the new slayers. When they get there, Lord Ambroise-Bellairs, a young Quentin Travers- like watcher has already set up shop and treats the new slayers like servants. Buffy and Giles quickly take over. They learn that many slayers stop coming to London and are instead going to Rome and staying with the Immortal. Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Xander and a young slayer named Belle go to investigate. In Cleveland, Faith and her group are having a hard time holding Cleveland so JFK and group of Slayers are sent to reinforce Faith.

Many young slayers die trying to hold Cleveland. Other slayers are leaving Buffy to join the a self-proclaimed queen of the slayers-who is actually a slayer but she is working for a vampire queen. Tara makes an appearance as a ascended being. Oz and Nikki Wood also appear.

Make of it what you will.

Sounds like bad fan-fic to me.

Warlock

[aceivan]

The latest Previews has a picture of two of the Firefly figures. Is it just me or do they have really worried expressions on their faces? It looks as if they just realised how bad the Firefly movie is going to be.

Len

[xita]

look at what someone showed me, they sold "your shirt"

[WebWarlock]

Isn't that special.

Too bad, we should have pooled some cash and bought it our selves and then video tapped it being burned.

I could have given it to my crazy cousin Jonathan and done it up all like a hunting show.

"What do we have here today John?"
"Well Tim we have this prop shirt, a few gallons of kerosene, some C-4, couple of army surplus grenades and few magnisum flares for added color. We put it on this giant Dough-boy replica, not to be confused with anyone in particular, and stuffed all the explosives inside."
"So we are going to blow it up real good then."
"Boom."

Hey. I'd find it fun.

Warlock

[Sheridan]

Many young slayers die trying to hold Cleveland. Other slayers are leaving Buffy to join the a self-proclaimed queen of the slayers-who is actually a slayer but she is working for a vampire queen. Tara makes an appearance as a ascended being. Oz and Nikki Wood also appear.

Good grief, I'm amazed they didn't write in the ktichen sink. This really does smack of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, who the hell is this supposed to be for?

[WebWarlock]

No shit. It's like bad fan-fic.

All we are missing is Oz declaring his undying love for Willow and Spike and Buffy weeping tears of joy as they walk hand in hand into the sunset.

Holder is a hack.

Warlock

[gspiggott]

Holder is a hack, but she's the JW officially approved hack, and they suit each other well.

[WebWarlock]

More from "QotS" (which I believe is Klingon for 'shit').

In the book, Willow saw Tara when she did her slayer spell. It kinda causes a rift between her and JFK. Tara doesn't appear to Willow in the book. She helps Xander find a way to save Dawn.

and

Angel, Spike, Gunn, and Illyria all make appearances in a way,as well as Buffy's future daughter.

Now it all just sounds like a bad episode of Charmed or even more like fan fic.

Warlock

[Sheridan]

as well as Buffy's future daughter

What? That's it if she's from anywhere in the vicinity of 2018 I'm taking legal action... Seriously it sounds like they've been leafing through vaarious fan fic sources and borrowing anything that takes their fancy, then jamming it together in one almighty mess.

[WebWarlock]

Sher,

It would not be the first time.

A proposal I sent to Fox (back when I gave a fuck) for the Buffy RPG was rejected and then later became plot points of Angel. Both Garner here and my wife can attest to that but as they say that isn't worth a hill of shit.

I do take comfort in something my wife told me after we watched something I wrote on screen, "take heart that they so crappy that can't even steal from you properly".

ETA: Oh sweet Brigit I just read this:

And is the father suppose to be somehow a mixture of both Angel & Spike.

The mere fact that someone asked this in public.

Warlock

[still waters run deep]

the more I look back at BtVS with the benefit of a gap the more I realise that the UPN years were really abysmal. Even the couple of exceptions, were in hindsight not as well written or produced as they could, should have been...... Buffy is now showing on both C5 and Sky, the early episodes on C5 I might just watch but Sky [S6]...... I just dont bother any more......

how nice it now is to have a good show like Dr Who to look forward to..... now all it needs is for Amber to involved, and my cup will run over.....

[Sheridan]

proposal I sent to Fox (back when I gave a fuck) for the Buffy RPG was rejected and then later became plot points of Angel. Both Garner here and my wife can attest to that but as they say that isn't worth a hill of shit.

Ah well that's why you always send yourself a copy of these things in the post, then you've got dated proof, of course with fan fic you haven't really got a leg to stand on mores the pity. This book really does seem like a bolted together piece of junk created to cover all the bases, suchas

[WebWarlock]

See I sent it to lawyers, so you figure I should have been ok.
Plus me vs. Fox....riiiiight.

Nor can I draw a nice smooth line from me to them to the hacks. In the end it hardly matters. They are hacks, I know it and I have seen what they are capable of so it makes even the rare good memory tainted.

Warlock

[Sheridan]

See I sent it to lawyers, so you figure I should have been ok.
Plus me vs. Fox....riiiiight.

True enough, and they certainly seem to be plumbing new depths of, hackishness? hackery? With this effort.
And something else, they seem to hav adopted a new rule that its ok to feature a ghostly Tara so long as she never communicates with Willow. Saw it the mind numbing Wicked Willow books and apparently they are pulling the same trick here.

[Garner]

I could unleash some invective about the Wicked Willow books or the current stupidity, but they've added enough ugliness to the world so I'll refrain. If they cared about Tara or W/T fans, well they wouldn't have done season sux or introduced BSK, but if they thought they could milk us for some cash they'd approach Chris Golden to do a Tara returns book. But since they'd rather just pay a pittance to hacks to churn or chum I'd say that shows how much they care. I am actually a little surprised they're even letting Tara appear as a spirit, but whatever.

Tim, I remember the deal with Fox and the RPG material we were working on and the similarities. Since it came post season five, there is no surprise that they blew even stealing a good idea. Hell, I would have preferred they stole stuff from Pens and fanfic for season sux and showed that rather than what we got.

Stillwaters...I have also found that season 5 is a bit more spotty on re-watching than I remember it and that season 4 isn't as bad in the early sections as I originally thought. Season sux, however, remains a festering pushole and will always be so. The few, very few, highpoints just weren't worth it. It will be interesting to see if Charmed, which effectively had a series ending finale this season, comes back with good material or makes fans wish they had stopped.

Garner

[WebWarlock]

more Queen of the Stupid stuff...

This is so good I am posting it without snarky commentary.


Part of the review from Debra Doyle:

There's some plot, but who cares. The main thing, the bit that I'd heard about but had to read for myself, is the part where Buffy holds hands with Spike and Angel and a mystical white light surrounds them and their daughter is created.

Yeah.

She has Angel's eyes and Spike's smile. And is a kick-ass Slayer. And she saves the world.

It's like the best bad fanfic ever, and it's available in paperback for me to love and cherish forever. Seriously, this has everything. It says Buffy, Angel and Spike are 'soulmates'. Seconds away from a fiery death after a bus crash, Buffy is glad to be dying because she'll see Spike again, and speculates that the flames are baking her cookie dough. The very last scene has Buffy pregnant with Spike and Angel's mystical baby. Oh, and I think I spotted Willow getting back together with Oz on my skim-through, as well as Andrew/Immortal subtext, but that's all incidental to the magic Mary Sue baby of canon OT3ness.

AND!

Oz is revealed to be the leader of an mystic order of warrior werewolves. They have full control of their werewolf form and they also possess most of their werewolf powers while in human form.

It's stated that Oz's werewolves and Buffy's slayers are hooking up, so expect mutant children in the future.

I think we should send in some of our own reviews.

Warlock

[xita]

that's funny. it's such a great book it only deserved a skim through.